two questions related to rhythm/stroke

[evergruven]

in the past, I've often looked at the shot line before shooting tough/off-angle shots
recently, I've felt that I could benefit from doing this as part of my psr/before every shot-
the only disadvantage I can see to this is potentially disrupting my rhythm- wondering if y'all agree?
I don't want to give myself reasons to miss, figured getting a good look at the shot line couldn't hurt..

a sort-of related question
as I think I've mentioned before, I've started to exaggerate the pause in my backstroke, for (~power) draw shots
that was a thing I forced upon myself as suggested by somebody, somewhere- and I think it kinda works
wondering if it's cool to only do that on that particular shot, or if I should be trying to pause for longer on other shots, too- ?

 

[WilliamK]

Different strokes for different players. I know a lot of players who have watched snooker pros on TV and then introduced a longer back stroke and even a pause... their game went down hill. Maybe because although the method had been practiced there was no rhythm or timing that worked well when under duress. But if it does works use it.

 

[evergruven]

Different strokes for different players. I know a lot of players who have watched snooker pros on TV and then introduced a longer back stroke and even a pause... their game went down hill. Maybe because although the method had been practiced there was no rhythm or timing that worked well when under duress. But if it does works use it.

thanks. intellectually, I've been aware of the potential benefits of increasing the length of the pause, but only recently could I actually employ it..interesting

 

[phreaticus]

in the past, I've often looked at the shot line before shooting tough/off-angle shots
recently, I've felt that I could benefit from doing this as part of my psr/before every shot-
the only disadvantage I can see to this is potentially disrupting my rhythm- wondering if y'all agree?
I don't want to give myself reasons to miss, figured getting a good look at the shot line couldn't hurt..

a sort-of related question
as I think I've mentioned before, I've started to exaggerate the pause in my backstroke, for (~power) draw shots
that was a thing I forced upon myself as suggested by somebody, somewhere- and I think it kinda works
wondering if it's cool to only do that on that particular shot, or if I should be trying to pause for longer on other shots, too- ?

As far as looking at the shotline, I bounce around on this also. I’ve recently concluded that doing it consistently on every shot even when I don’t really need to is more consistent. I really only glance at the shotline, I’m mostly noting the tangent line.

Regarding stroke, I think thats an almost exclusively a personal thing.

 

[pagaspoling]

the only disadvantage I can see to this is potentially disrupting my rhythm- wondering if y'all agree?

If you include it in your PSR it will be part of your natural rhythm so then it shouldn't be any problems. I think its better to have it in the routine and occasionally remove it when you don't need it than to add it when it's needed. It's usually with harder shots where you want to look at the line so I would prefer to feel comfortable in my PSR and rhythm on those.

wondering if it's cool to only do that on that particular shot, or if I should be trying to pause for longer on other shots, too- ?

Instead of looking at it as backswing->pause->stroke I would look at it as backswing->transition->stroke. A pause implies (at least for me) no motion or force in the cue/arm at all while a transition implies more of an athletic or dynamic movement. The important part is to get momentum in the cue going back. The momentum creates some stretch and tension in the arm as you stop the cue going back that you can release in the forward stroke. The pause is happening because you want to try to accelerate the cue as smoothly as possible in the beginning, making the direction easier to control. So what you're seeing is a pause but whats happening is a really slow controlled acceleration of the arm and cue. It's called a stretch shorten cycle and its present in all athletic movement.

To answer you question: If you have a good dynamic backswing the pause will take care of itself and shorten and lengthen depending on what shot you are trying to hit. If your backswing is good you should even be able to hold the pause and the tension in your arm for several seconds before release, that would of course make it harder to time the shot, but it's a good way to practice the correct feeling.

 

[evergruven]

If you include it in your PSR it will be part of your natural rhythm so then it shouldn't be any problems. I think its better to have it in the routine and occasionally remove it when you don't need it than to add it when it's needed. It's usually with harder shots where you want to look at the line so I would prefer to feel comfortable in my PSR and rhythm on those.

thanks, I like the way you put it. this is my instinct as well- just new to me, and figured I'd check here before gluing it in

To answer you question: If you have a good dynamic backswing the pause will take care of itself and shorten and lengthen depending on what shot you are trying to hit. If your backswing is good you should even be able to hold the pause and the tension in your arm for several seconds before release, that would of course make it harder to time the shot, but it's a good way to practice the correct feeling.

again, confidence-building stuff- thank you.

 

[FranCrimi]

in the past, I've often looked at the shot line before shooting tough/off-angle shots
recently, I've felt that I could benefit from doing this as part of my psr/before every shot-
the only disadvantage I can see to this is potentially disrupting my rhythm- wondering if y'all agree?
I don't want to give myself reasons to miss, figured getting a good look at the shot line couldn't hurt..

a sort-of related question
as I think I've mentioned before, I've started to exaggerate the pause in my backstroke, for (~power) draw shots
that was a thing I forced upon myself as suggested by somebody, somewhere- and I think it kinda works
wondering if it's cool to only do that on that particular shot, or if I should be trying to pause for longer on other shots, too- ?

Question: What shot line are you referring to? CB to OB, or OB to pocket?

As for the long pause:

When trying to execute a power shot, it's not unusual for amateur players to jerk the cue back quickly and then max out their cue acceleration too early during the forward stroke, and start to decelerate before the tip hits the CB --- Or jerk the cue forward in the same manner of the backstroke and come to an abrupt stop with no follow through -- a poke stroke. A long pause at the end of the backstroke is one of the ways to correct poor forward stroke timing resulting from a jerky or poorly timed backstroke, because it's like starting your stroke from scratch. It's a re-set. It negates the effect of your backstroke.

I'm not sure if that effect is more psychological than physical, but the way you execute your backstroke definitely influences your forward stroke.

If you're at a point in your game where no matter how hard you try, you can't stop jerking the cue back on power shots, then this could be a workable solution for you. But as both a player and a teacher, I recommend that you try first to bring your cue back slowly in your takeaway on power shots before resorting to the long pause. The long pause can affect your overall stroke timing and rhythm, particularly if you only want to do it on certain shots. Then there's the issue of how long you pause on those shots. It's not something that can easily be controlled. All these things affect your rhythm at the table and will pull you into conscious thought as well.

 

[evergruven]

Question: What shot line are you referring to? CB to OB, or OB to pocket?

hi fran, ob to pocket-

As for the long pause:

A long pause at the end of the backstroke is one of the ways to correct poor forward stroke timing resulting from a jerky or poorly timed backstroke, because it's like starting your stroke from scratch. It's a re-set. It negates the effect of your backstroke.

makes sense, and for me

But as both a player and a teacher, I recommend that you try first to bring your cue back slowly in your takeaway on power shots before resorting to the long pause. The long pause can affect your overall stroke timing and rhythm, particularly if you only want to do it on certain shots. Then there's the issue of how long you pause on those shots. It's not something that can easily be controlled. All these things affect your rhythm at the table and will pull you into conscious thought as well.

like the extended pause is a band aid? works now, but maybe unsustainable moving forward (half a pun) ?

will work on bringing cue back more slowly..just do it/practice it, I guess? and I can video. thank you-

 

[FranCrimi]

hi fran, ob to pocket-




makes sense, and for me



like the extended pause is a band aid? works now, but maybe unsustainable moving forward (half a pun) ?

will work on bringing cue back more slowly..just do it/practice it, I guess? and I can video. thank you-

OK. So OB to pocket. Next question: Where in your PSR are you considering looking at it? Can you provide a little more detail on that?

"like the extended pause is a band aid?" --- Yes, that can turn into a habit. How many out of a hundred pros do you think do it? My guess is less than 10, maybe even less than 5. These are things you should look at, and then ask yourself why so few? Do I really need to do that?

There is one other issue to consider in this process of the long pause, and that's a physical issue. At what point do you shift your eyes from the cb to the ob? Before you begin your backswing? During your backswing? During the pause?

 

[evergruven]

OK. So OB to pocket. Next question: Where in your PSR are you considering looking at it? Can you provide a little more detail on that?

"like the extended pause is a band aid?" --- Yes, that can turn into a habit. How many out of a hundred pros do you think do it? My guess is less than 10, maybe even less than 5. These are things you should look at, and then ask yourself why so few? Do I really need to do that?

There is one other issue to consider in this process of the long pause, and that's a physical issue. At what point do you shift your eyes from the cb to the ob? Before you begin your backswing? During your backswing? During the pause?

I hear you. like you said, likely got to work on my stroke speed back and forth, and follow-through, too.

right now, I'm looking at the angle to the pocket pretty early in my psr- on the table, it might be the first thing I do after surveying the table as a whole
I look at that angle, then look at the shot line cb to ob, get down, shoot. I honestly think my eyes are all over the place, but haven't got vid on that yet..
in the past (and still, mostly), I look at cb last. I'm finally getting to a place where I'm confident enough to look at the ob last, but I know I'm inconsistent in that

 

[WobblyStroke]

dont overthink the pocket line. patt of ur psr in ur aiming portion is determining your shot line. if u are sure of the pocket line on familiar shots, no need to go look at it.

 

[FranCrimi]

I hear you. like you said, likely got to work on my stroke speed back and forth, and follow-through, too.

right now, I'm looking at the angle to the pocket pretty early in my psr- on the table, it might be the first thing I do after surveying the table as a whole
I look at that angle, then look at the shot line cb to ob, get down, shoot. I honestly think my eyes are all over the place, but haven't got vid on that yet..
in the past (and still, mostly), I look at cb last. I'm finally getting to a place where I'm confident enough to look at the ob last, but I know I'm inconsistent in that

There are a few shots where it helps to look at the cb last, like jump shots, for example. But with pool, we have the advantage of being able to stand perfectly still while stroking, which allows us the freedom to look away from the cue ball and view the second target. That's a huge advantage that we shouldn't deprive ourselves of.

As for looking at the line to the pocket. You've got it in the right place in your PSR, which is while you're still moving around the table. It wouldn't hurt to take a quick look while you're still standing. You can eliminate that step on the obvious shots with no obstructions or sharp angles, but don't let that make you sloppy in your PSR. You still need to do it on many shots.

But once you're down on the shot, it's all about cb to ob. Don't raise your head and try to peek at the ob to pocket line or you'll ruin all the alignment work you just did, because you'll be taking your eyes off the line between the cb and ob.

 

[BC21]

There are a few shots where it helps to look at the cb last, like jump shots, for example. But with pool, we have the advantage of being able to stand perfectly still while stroking, which allows us the freedom to look away from the cue ball and view the second target. That's a huge advantage that we shouldn't deprive ourselves of.

As for looking at the line to the pocket. You've got it in the right place in your PSR, which is while you're still moving around the table. It wouldn't hurt to take a quick look while you're still standing. You can eliminate that step on the obvious shots with no obstructions or sharp angles, but don't let that make you sloppy in your PSR. You still need to do it on many shots.

But once you're down on the shot, it's all about cb to ob. Don't raise your head and try to peek at the ob to pocket line or you'll ruin all the alignment work you just did, because you'll be taking your eyes off the line between the cb and ob.

Great post.

I believe most players would find it very beneficial to always look at the shot line, regardless of simplicity or cut angle. Providing consistent visual data for each shot helps the mind develop consistent and reliable shot recognition.

 

[evergruven]

There are a few shots where it helps to look at the cb last, like jump shots, for example. But with pool, we have the advantage of being able to stand perfectly still while stroking, which allows us the freedom to look away from the cue ball and view the second target. That's a huge advantage that we shouldn't deprive ourselves of.

thanks fran. I admit I'm not convinced either way, but I appreciate your perspective on it
and I agree with what y'all are saying about the shot line..going to keep up with that and see how it goes

I actually had my first proper lesson yesterday and we worked on my stroke a lot, was a neat experience!

 

[FranCrimi]

thanks fran. I admit I'm not convinced either way, but I appreciate your perspective on it
and I agree with what y'all are saying about the shot line..going to keep up with that and see how it goes

I actually had my first proper lesson yesterday and we worked on my stroke a lot, was a neat experience!

Glad to hear that you took a lesson and enjoyed the experience. I want to share with you what I tell players who come to me for help. I tell them that it's important to trust me, and that while it's tempting to ask other people's opinions about what I'm showing them, to refrain from doing that for the time being. It's better for the player to direct his or her questions and concerns back to me.

Letting other people's opinions into your head during this crucial time in your development can confuse you and hurt your progress. If you find yourself continually questioning what your instructor is telling you and that their answers aren't satisfactory to you, then you should consider moving on from them. But as long as you're with them, stay loyal to them.

 

[Zerksies]

It has positive and negatives. It's going to slow you down, but your probably going to miss less balls.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Glad to hear that you took a lesson and enjoyed the experience. I want to share with you what I tell players who come to me for help. I tell them that it's important to trust me, and that while it's tempting to ask other people's opinions about what I'm showing them, to refrain from doing that for the time being. It's better for the player to direct his or her questions and concerns back to me.

Letting other people's opinions into your head during this crucial time in your development can confuse you and hurt your progress. If you find yourself continually questioning what your instructor is telling you and that their answers aren't satisfactory to you, then you should consider moving on from them. But as long as you're with them, stay loyal to them.

Ye staying with one voice of authority in ur head is best when learning. Countless golfers have led themselves to disastrous results by mixing and matching tips from different coaches intended for different swings. Same can be done with pool, so don't be that guy.

 

[ACL]

I have incorporated a pause in my backswing because I have a tendency to rush the transition and jab on the CB instead of just swinging through it smoothly. I have been working on it for a while now and it has helped my consistency greatly. When I am playing well, the pause is imperceptible. When I am not it is more pronounced (at least to me because I am told there is very little difference by observers). I still revert back to a rushed transition and can tell immediately when I do it which makes me concentrate more on the pause. That is happening much less frequently but it it still rears it's ugly head from time-to-time.

As a few have stated, it all comes down to what works for you. We are all still a work in progress and that fact will be constant in this sport that we can all agree on, IMHO.

 

[evergruven]

Glad to hear that you took a lesson and enjoyed the experience. I want to share with you what I tell players who come to me for help. I tell them that it's important to trust me, and that while it's tempting to ask other people's opinions about what I'm showing them, to refrain from doing that for the time being. It's better for the player to direct his or her questions and concerns back to me.

Letting other people's opinions into your head during this crucial time in your development can confuse you and hurt your progress. If you find yourself continually questioning what your instructor is telling you and that their answers aren't satisfactory to you, then you should consider moving on from them. But as long as you're with them, stay loyal to them.

thanks fran, I hear what you're saying
the lesson I had was a one-off, so I'm not sure I'll be able to follow up on what I was initially taught
this said, I'll try to let the lesson sink in a bit, before jumping on here to question it ^_^

 

[garczar]

in the past, I've often looked at the shot line before shooting tough/off-angle shots
recently, I've felt that I could benefit from doing this as part of my psr/before every shot-
the only disadvantage I can see to this is potentially disrupting my rhythm- wondering if y'all agree?
I don't want to give myself reasons to miss, figured getting a good look at the shot line couldn't hurt..

a sort-of related question
as I think I've mentioned before, I've started to exaggerate the pause in my backstroke, for (~power) draw shots
that was a thing I forced upon myself as suggested by somebody, somewhere- and I think it kinda works
wondering if it's cool to only do that on that particular shot, or if I should be trying to pause for longer on other shots, too- ?

you need to just watch a bunch of top players. easier to watch-n-copy as opposed to have someone on a forum tell you how.