Face square?

[Tennesseejoe]

quarasar...It looks like you have enthusiastically tried many methods to improve your game. In discussing your progress you have frequently mentioned 'consistency'. I would like to share something with you but first I need you to tell me how you measure consistency.

 

[GoldCrown]

Quar…. Dismiss this thread and start over. Rewind and start from scratch. Relax. Take the pressure off.

 

[dquarasr]

quarasar...It looks like you have enthusiastically tried many methods to improve your game. In discussing your progress you have frequently mentioned 'consistency'. I would like to share something with you but first I need you to tell me how you measure consistency.

thanks for the offer.

Consistency: the swings from my worst performance to my best performance narrows. From one session at the table to the next, my performance doesn’t deviate dramatically. I can summon, if not my best performance, a “not embarrassingly terrible” one. The frequency of “I’m totally lost” goes down.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Tennesseejoe]

thanks for the offer.

Consistency: the swings from my worst performance to my best performance narrows. From one session at the table to the next, my performance doesn’t deviate dramatically. I can summon, if not my best performance, a “not embarrassingly terrible” one. The frequency of “I’m totally lost” goes down.

Does that answer your question?

Yes, it answers the question however it may not be the best measurement of consistency. I think it would be more helpful to measure specific issues instead the big picture. As an example, when you miss a shot is it because of aim? stroke? body movement? miss in the same direction? etc.? or several of these issues???

Are you open to suggestions?

 

[dquarasr]

Yes, it answers the question however it may not be the best measurement of consistency. I think it would be more helpful to measure specific issues instead the big picture. As an example, when you miss a shot is it because of aim? stroke? body movement? miss in the same direction? etc.? or several of these issues???

Are you open to suggestions?

Oh, man. If I knew whether I missed because of stroke or aim, I could bottle it and become a gazillionaire. I think many of my misses these days are because of aim, whereas 8-9 months ago it was because of stroke. I don’t think many misses are because of body movement.

Some sessions I miss consistently left or consistently right. Those I can usually quickly figure out why. When I am missing both left and right it’s usually because of a wonky stroke, or because I’m thinking too much. Sometimes I’ll get down on a shot and have a feeling I’ll miss too thick, or too thin, and I shoot it anyway and I curse myself because I KNEW It was wrong. Sometimes I’ll know it’s wrong, stand back up, start over, get down and it still doesn’t look right. Sometimes I’ll stand up again and it STILL doesn’t look right and I won’t know how to make it look right. Thankfully, instances of the latter are becoming more infrequent. I’ll even walk away from the table and re-approach hopefully with a fresh eye.

YES! I AM OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS, at the peril of incurring the wrath of certain instructors who seem to think my willingness will lead me astray as if I don’t have the intelligence to discern what might work for me vs what won’t.

 

[GoldCrown]

Oh, man. If I knew whether I missed because of stroke or aim, I could bottle it and become a gazillionaire. I think many of my misses these days are because of aim, whereas 8-9 months ago it was because of stroke. I don’t think many misses are because of body movement.

I miss.... wrist twist, rushing, concentration..
Can you video and study yourself?

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Oh, man. If I knew whether I missed because of stroke or aim, I could bottle it and become a gazillionaire. I think many of my misses these days are because of aim, whereas 8-9 months ago it was because of stroke. I don’t think many misses are because of body movement.

Some sessions I miss consistently left or consistently right. Those I can usually quickly figure out why. When I am missing both left and right it’s usually because of a wonky stroke, or because I’m thinking too much. Sometimes I’ll get down on a shot and have a feeling I’ll miss too thick, or too thin, and I shoot it anyway and I curse myself because I KNEW It was wrong. Sometimes I’ll know it’s wrong, stand back up, start over, get down and it still doesn’t look right. Sometimes I’ll stand up again and it STILL doesn’t look right and I won’t know how to make it look right. Thankfully, instances of the latter are becoming more infrequent. I’ll even walk away from the table and re-approach hopefully with a fresh eye.

YES! I AM OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS, at the peril of incurring the wrath of certain instructors who seem to think my willingness will lead me astray as if I don’t have the intelligence to discern what might work for me vs what won’t.

I will explain it here or if you feel privacy is best for you...just PM me. Do you have easy access to a table?

 

[dquarasr]

I miss.... wrist twist, rushing, concentration..
Can you video and study yourself?

Been there done that many times.

 

[dquarasr]

I will explain it here or if you feel privacy is best for you...just PM me. Do you have easy access to a table?

In my Great Room. 4.5x9. Hell, put it out there. I can take it.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

LOL. "Keep it comin'? You have an answer for everything. Do I have the word 'sucker' stamped on my forehead? Count me out. But I'm sure you won't be lacking for help from other posters here. My life experience has taught me to know when to fold 'em.

DQ feels he is knocking on the door, since when he's on, he has very long runs.

He's just complimented and thanked you--and provided statistics--and you are being rude and dismissive.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

In my Great Room. 4.5x9. Hell, put it out there. I can take it.

Based on your statements, I am assuming you are well versed in the fundamentals. The first thing is to do a simple exercise to identify the problems and consistency. Place an object ball 2 inches off of a side rail one diamond below the side pocket. Now place the cue ball on the head string, 2 inches off the same side rail. Shoot this straight in stop shot 20 times at about pocket speed and record successes, shots to the right, and shots to the left. Repeat this process with a follow shot where the cue ball follows to the end rail or pocket. Just record the object ball results. Now repeat this shot with a 2 diamond draw shot. Record the object ball results.

Share the results, consistencies, and observations. Easy enough...then on to the next step.

 

[dquarasr]

Based on your statements, I am assuming you are well versed in the fundamentals. The first thing is to do a simple exercise to identify the problems and consistency. Place an object ball 2 inches off of a side rail one diamond below the side pocket. Now place the cue ball on the head string, 2 inches off the same side rail. Shoot this straight in stop shot 20 times at about pocket speed and record successes, shots to the right, and shots to the left. Repeat this process with a follow shot where the cue ball follows to the end rail or pocket. Just record the object ball results. Now repeat this shot with a 2 diamond draw shot. Record the object ball results.

Share the results, consistencies, and observations. Easy enough...then on to the next step.

Just to be clear, is this the setup you describe? Do this on this side of the table, (1-ball) per the diagram, then again another set on the other side of the table (2-ball).

1 - Stop shot
2 - Follow shot
3 - Draw the CB 2-diamonds (CB will end up where the ghost CB is, right)?

If this is the shot, I think I'd have trouble with #3. I don't think I can draw that far from that distance, but I'll try it tomorrow and post my results.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't think I can draw that far from that distance

Use a striped ball as your CB with the stripe horizontal - try to hit it on the bottom edge of the stripe (check chalk marks to see how close you're coming).

Try looking at that spot on the CB when you take your shot stroke (after aiming and practice strokes).

Precision is more important than speed for this shot.

pj
chgo

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Just to be clear, is this the setup you describe? Do this on this side of the table, (1-ball) per the diagram, then again another set on the other side of the table (2-ball).

1 - Stop shot
2 - Follow shot
3 - Draw the CB 2-diamonds (CB will end up where the ghost CB is, right)?

If this is the shot, I think I'd have trouble with #3. I don't think I can draw that far from that distance, but I'll try it tomorrow and post my results.
View attachment 689138

DQ...you asked the perfect question...I want you to set a benchmarks so we may see your consistency. Do these shots on one side of the table to help with measuring consistency. Since you do not have a strong draw shot , don't worry about that, it is not what we are working on now. Just move the cue ball one diamond closer to the object ball or even up to the side pocket. You have diagramed it correctly. Just draw the cue ball one diamond.
I am not trying to get you to do anything better right now...we just need to establish benchmarks for specific tasks. Before you do this exercise, you may want to warm up by shooting some shots...but not these shots. I am interested in your report.

 

[dquarasr]

I warmed up by setting up a few straight shots, then throwing all 15 balls out there and shooting them in no particular order. Then I performed the baseline "test".

Here are the results and my observations. This exercise so far has proven very revealing. This was performed on a 9-foot table.

1-ball per the diagram

Stop: 20/20 Observations: about 1/3 touched the long rail. Noticed my head tilt; if I tilted slightly more (less square), I hit center pocket. All shots had CB stopping within one CB diameter of the OB.

Follow: 16/20 Observations: the four misses were CB left. I think I lost focus and wasn't tilting my head consistently. I also noticed that some shots didn't "feel" right, but if I addressed the CB like a stop shot, at the base of the CB, then raised to a follow position, I didn't miss, but this wasn't a sufficient sample set to identify much of a pattern. The four misses were early in the sequence. On all shots CB followed to the short rail or the pocket.

Draw: 18/20 Observations: the second shot of the 20 was a rattle; the other miss was a miscue. Most shots drew 1 to 2 diamonds, with a few 2.5 to 3 diamonds.

2-ball

Stop: 17/20 Observations: Two rattled out. One was a really bad miss CB right. All shots (except the bad miss) had CB stopping within 1 CB diameter of the OB.

Follow: 18/20 Observations: On all shots, the CB followed to the short rail or the pocket. Noticed I was more accurate with my "new"-ish head tilt (the subject of this thread originally!). Misses, in retrospect, were where by force of habit from the last year or so, I was aligning my head square. When I aligned with my head tilt where the cue is more under my vision center, I was much more accurate.

Draw: 19/20 Observations: Darn, missed the penultimate shot. All shots drew 1 to 2 diamonds. Felt really good except the 19th shot that rattled.

So there it is. Conclusions I can draw (no pun intended):

• While I'm still getting used to my new head position, as long as I don't revert to recent habits, my accuracy improved.
• It's easy to lose focus.
• My draw isn't as poor as I thought it was (although still needs improvement for being able to draw the same distance, and to power draw, which I didn't try this session).
• I hoped to be in the 18-20 range on all these baseline "tests", but these numbers are about as I expected based on my current skill level and recent performance.

Looking forward to your comments.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

I am impressed with your shot consistency and most importantly your realization of head tilt. Not many players understand this is important and how it effects a shot. Find your comfort head tilt position and stick with it during this period of measuring consistency. Is focusing on a spot on the object ball during your final stroke part of your pre-shot routine? It sounds like it is but focusing on this can be difficult to bring to the unconscious/competent level.

Continue this exercise until you feel comfortable enough to set up the shot with the cue ball on head string line as stated in the original lesson. When you are ready then record your accuracy and the amount of cue ball draw. Then share any new conclusions, concentration on object ball spot, and head tilt consistency. We are measuring improvement.

Your excellent report was concise and to the point. The next exercise will be more difficult.

EDIT...In this exercise, shoot all shots with the speed that you would need to draw two diamonds.

 

[dquarasr]

Is focusing on a spot on the object ball during your final stroke part of your pre-shot routine? It sounds like it is but focusing on this can be difficult to bring to the unconscious/competent level.

.

Thanks. I’ll continue this exercise with the draw shot and see how it goes.

To answer your question, no, I don’t focus on a spot on the OB. I focus on the center of the imagined ghost ball (I am very comfortable using ghost ball as my aim method). I found that when I focused on a spot on the OB, such as the contact point, I’d usually hit too thick because I’d unconsciously steer the CB to the spot, not to the center of the ghost ball. Especially if cutting where the center of the ghost ball is outside the edge of the OB. (Did I explain that adequately?)

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Thanks. I’ll continue this exercise with the draw shot and see how it goes.

To answer your question, no, I don’t focus on a spot on the OB. I focus on the center of the imagined ghost ball (I am very comfortable using ghost ball as my aim method). I found that when I focused on a spot on the OB, such as the contact point, I’d usually hit too thick because I’d unconsciously steer the CB to the spot, not to the center of the ghost ball. Especially if cutting where the center of the ghost ball is outside the edge of the OB. (Did I explain that adequately?)

DQ...sorry, I made a faulty assumption. Use your method with concentration.

 

[dquarasr]

I am impressed with your shot consistency and most importantly your realization of head tilt. Not many players understand this is important and how it effects a shot. Find your comfort head tilt position and stick with it during this period of measuring consistency. Is focusing on a spot on the object ball during your final stroke part of your pre-shot routine? It sounds like it is but focusing on this can be difficult to bring to the unconscious/competent level.

Continue this exercise until you feel comfortable enough to set up the shot with the cue ball on head string line as stated in the original lesson. When you are ready then record your accuracy and the amount of cue ball draw. Then share any new conclusions, concentration on object ball spot, and head tilt consistency. We are measuring improvement.

Your excellent report was concise and to the point. The next exercise will be more difficult.

EDIT...In this exercise, shoot all shots with the speed that you would need to draw two diamonds.

Sorry, I’m a little confused. What is the intent for continuing this exercise? Simply repeating it to see if scores improve? If I misled you, apologies. I shot all the draw shots as depicted in the diagram. I did not move the CB closer.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Sorry, I’m a little confused. What is the intent for continuing this exercise? Simply repeating it to see if scores improve? If I misled you, apologies. I shot all the draw shots as depicted in the diagram. I did not move the CB closer.

I thought you moved it closer as I suggested based on your comment. Then that was good shooting.

Since you have done all the draw shots while shooting harder we can rule out that shooting harder is not decreasing your consistency. My theory is that a shooter needs to have accuracy with straight in shots to have accuracy with cut shots.

The next exercise, if you want to continue, is to shoot the same set up using English. Shoot these again with high right following the cue ball to the pocket, then low right drawing the cue ball back to the rail, then low stop shot with the cue ball spinning in place. Then do again with left English.

This exercise is an eye opener for many experienced players.