Face square?

[dquarasr]

I thought you moved it closer as I suggested based on your comment. Then that was good shooting.

Since you have done all the draw shots while shooting harder we can rule out that shooting harder is not decreasing your consistency. My theory is that a shooter needs to have accuracy with straight in shots to have accuracy with cut shots.

The next exercise, if you want to continue, is to shoot the same set up using English. Shoot these again with high right following the cue ball to the pocket, then low right drawing the cue ball back to the rail, then low stop shot with the cue ball spinning in place. Then do again with left English.

This exercise is an eye opener for many experienced players.

Normally shooting harder is challenging for me. I am learning to trust my alignment, not to squeeze the cue, to accelerate smoothly, and to quit thinking about the shot.

I’ll try the next sequence and report back.

If the numbers are drastically different, I’ll perform a condensed version of the baseline to see if I’m off, so we can determine whether it’s basic shooting that went astray, or if applying side spin is causing misses. Stay tuned!

Thanks.

 

[dquarasr]

I haven't done the updated exercise suggested by TennesseeJoe, but I plan to as soon as I am up for it.

In league Wednesday I won 9-ball 17-3, so something must have been right. In 8-ball I won hill-hill in a great match against a similarly-skilled opponent. We played a long chess match, both of us using safeties. We both agreed we had so much fun playing that match, and we also agreed that we would have been happy regardless of which of us won. And we ended up sharing at least one shot of booze (I'll admit to one) afterwards. Great camaraderie playing a tough match.

That aside, this morning I tried my usual warm-up: throw all 16 balls out there and see how many shots it takes me to clear. My goal, of course, is to shoot them all without missing (16 because I also use the Rempe training cue ball as an object ball).

This morning I warmed up with a few racks, got out with two or three misses. Then I got serious, after deciding I was warmed up, and vowed to get out. I have an uncanny ability to screw up. I got to a 15-degree shot on the last ball, the "money ball", and missed it. Oh, well. It's why my name isn't Fedor, Shane, Efren, Albin, Jason, Earl, or Joshua.

(Not looking for advice on making the money ball, just sharing.)

 

[bbb]

Thanks for sharing your trials and tribulations
as you go thru your journey

 

[dquarasr]

I’ll try the next sequence and report back.

If the numbers are drastically different, I’ll perform a condensed version of the baseline to see if I’m off, so we can determine whether it’s basic shooting that went astray, or if applying side spin is causing misses. Stay tuned!

Thanks.

@Tennesseejoe: I had some time today so I did another round.

I shot the 1-ball side (the shot where the OB is on the left side of the table as viewed from the shooter's perspective). Here are results and observations:

All shots with maximum right-hand English as allowed by each shot. See attached diagram. Stop shot was right around the "Back Spin & Side Spin" on right side of imaged CB with stop-shot speed. Follow shot was "Top Spin & Side Spin". Draw shot was just below "Back Spin & Side Spin".

All shots except where noted had CB spinning counterclockwise.

Stop: 18/20. Both misses were in the first 3 shots as I adjusted to this LD shaft deflection (there wasn't much!!!!!!)

Follow: 17/20. 2 misses were in the first 5 shots. One shot was pocketed but did the CB did not make it to the short rail and had almost no spin. Obviously I didn't hit the intended spot on the CB on that shot.

Draw: 18/20. 2 shots were more like stun/stop (not enough low). Most drew back 2 diamonds; just a few drew back only 1 diamond.

Overall, once I locked in the minimal deflection of this LD shaft, I felt pretty comfortable. Of the 60 shots I had only two that I can recall where I missed badly. All others were pocketed or rattled very close misses. I'll try to do the 2-ball side with right spin, and both the 1-ball and 2-ball sides of the table with left spin and report back. Joe, I don't know if you have interim comments until I can complete the rest of the exercise.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

View attachment 690328

I'd be careful using that pic as a guide - the tips shown are entirely outside the non-miscue zone (shown in pink below).

pj
chgo

 

[dquarasr]

I'd be careful using that pic as a guide - the tips shown are entirely outside the non-miscue zone (shown in pink below).

pj
chgo

View attachment 690363

Understood. I couldn’t find a tool where I could depict exactly where I was hitting the CB. That was the best image I found. Anyone know of a tool for a CB like ChalkySticks is for a table?

Edit: I suppose I could probably use Paint and make my own image.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Understood. I couldn’t find a tool where I could depict exactly where I was hitting the CB. That was the best image I found. Anyone know of a tool for a CB like ChalkySticks is for a table?

Edit: I suppose I could probably use Paint and make my own image.

Or you could use a striped ball as your CB (with the stripe horizontal or vertical, depending on whether you're measuring follow/draw or sidespin) so the chalk marks show where you've hit. The stripe on a Centennial ball is just about half the width of the ball itself (see below), which is also the miscue limit.

pj
chgo

 

[dquarasr]

Here's a pic I created. They might not be quite as toward the edge as I am showing. The center of the shaft looked like it was as shown but of course the tip actually hits closer to the center of the CB than it looks.

 

[dquarasr]

Or you could use a striped ball as your CB (with the stripe horizontal or vertical, depending on whether you're measuring follow/draw or sidespin) so the chalk marks show where you've hit. The stripe on a Centennial ball is just about half the width of the ball itself (see below), which is also the miscue limit.

pj
chgo

Taom V10 doesn't leave any marks.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

@Tennesseejoe: I had some time today so I did another round.

I shot the 1-ball side (the shot where the OB is on the left side of the table as viewed from the shooter's perspective). Here are results and observations:

All shots with maximum right-hand English as allowed by each shot. See attached diagram. Stop shot was right around the "Back Spin & Side Spin" on right side of imaged CB with stop-shot speed. Follow shot was "Top Spin & Side Spin". Draw shot was just below "Back Spin & Side Spin".

All shots except where noted had CB spinning counterclockwise.

Stop: 18/20. Both misses were in the first 3 shots as I adjusted to this LD shaft deflection (there wasn't much!!!!!!)

Follow: 17/20. 2 misses were in the first 5 shots. One shot was pocketed but did the CB did not make it to the short rail and had almost no spin. Obviously I didn't hit the intended spot on the CB on that shot.

Draw: 18/20. 2 shots were more like stun/stop (not enough low). Most drew back 2 diamonds; just a few drew back only 1 diamond.

Overall, once I locked in the minimal deflection of this LD shaft, I felt pretty comfortable. Of the 60 shots I had only two that I can recall where I missed badly. All others were pocketed or rattled very close misses. I'll try to do the 2-ball side with right spin, and both the 1-ball and 2-ball sides of the table with left spin and report back. Joe, I don't know if you have interim comments until I can complete the rest of the exercise.

View attachment 690328

DQ... those were excellent results. The fact that you successfully dialed in to make the shots after the first few tries could be an indication that your consistency problem may be that when in competition you don't have a feel for the shot. If you could take the shot over you may have a higher percentage of making it. Since your home table is available, any time you have a chance to shoot a shot, shoot one of those without a warm up.

When you shoot the next exercise let's see if this sample mirrors the last one. Without being there I cannot see your concentration level, but from your feedback I think it is high.

After this exercise the next one will be the last. It will mirror the last ones but use spot shots as the target and add an angular perspective to your progress. It will be interesting to see if you need to dial in the spot shots. I will be waiting for your results and GOOD LUCK.

 

[dquarasr]

DQ... those were excellent results. The fact that you successfully dialed in to make the shots after the first few tries could be an indication that your consistency problem may be that when in competition you don't have a feel for the shot. If you could take the shot over you may have a higher percentage of making it. Since your home table is available, any time you have a chance to shoot a shot, shoot one of those without a warm up.

When you shoot the next exercise let's see if this sample mirrors the last one. Without being there I cannot see your concentration level, but from your feedback I think it is high.

After this exercise the next one will be the last. It will mirror the last ones but use spot shots as the target and add an angular perspective to your progress. It will be interesting to see if you need to dial in the spot shots. I will be waiting for your results and GOOD LUCK.

Thanks, TJ. In the last month or so I have become a bit more consistent, albeit slowly. The exercise of shooting with some pace on straight-in shots has actually taught me a lot about my stroke and my tendencies to screw up. In particular, simply focusing on a straight follow through, as basic a fundamental as there can be, tells me how that feels, and I can say with certainty that when I am "off", it sure doesn't feel like that.

Again, I have an uncanny ability to shoot 8-ball racks - and run to the 8, then miss it. I have to figure out why I lose my focus on the last shot. It's not as though I feel pressure, but there's something there. Also happens to me when I throw out all 15 balls and shoot them in random order, like a broken 14.1 rack. In the last week I've gotten to the last ball three times, and missed it, or to the 13th and 14th balls, and missed them. And the shots I've missed have NOT been difficult shots, they've been pretty routine.

I have no doubt I'll figure it out. My stroke feels great lately, my stance repeatable, and I'm "seeing" shots better. More to come . . . .

 

[Dan White]

Again, I have an uncanny ability to shoot 8-ball racks - and run to the 8, then miss it. I have to figure out why I lose my focus on the last shot. It's not as though I feel pressure, but there's something there.

Welcome to the human race. Typically, this is called "choking." Choking causes you to tense up otherwise relaxed muscles even when you don't realize it. Take a deep breath before the last ball, realize that you need to remain loose, and shoot. Just knowing what it is might help resolve it.. Success breeds confidence, which keeps the nerves away.

 

[boogieman]

Again, I have an uncanny ability to shoot 8-ball racks - and run to the 8, then miss it.

Do you ever finding yourself feeling good that the rack is solved and over at this point? Kind of like I can relax as the hard part is behind me? It's a sure out from here. It's a bad trap to fall into. I got out of it by giving the last 2-3 balls my full attention. Never take even a pocket hanger money ball for granted. Shoot it as perfectly as you can ever shoot a shot.

When I shoot the money ball, I probably look ridiculous. Even on "simple" money ball shots, I'll make sure everything feels and looks perfect before shooting. I'll get up and re-chalk 3 or 4 times if the money ball is giving me strange feelings. Eventually it looks and feels right and I shoot it.

If you miss the money ball you've lost, give it full respect. You can rest/relax your mind while the balls are being racked.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Thanks, TJ. In the last month or so I have become a bit more consistent, albeit slowly. The exercise of shooting with some pace on straight-in shots has actually taught me a lot about my stroke and my tendencies to screw up. In particular, simply focusing on a straight follow through, as basic a fundamental as there can be, tells me how that feels, and I can say with certainty that when I am "off", it sure doesn't feel like that.

Again, I have an uncanny ability to shoot 8-ball racks - and run to the 8, then miss it. I have to figure out why I lose my focus on the last shot. It's not as though I feel pressure, but there's something there. Also happens to me when I throw out all 15 balls and shoot them in random order, like a broken 14.1 rack. In the last week I've gotten to the last ball three times, and missed it, or to the 13th and 14th balls, and missed them. And the shots I've missed have NOT been difficult shots, they've been pretty routine.

I have no doubt I'll figure it out. My stroke feels great lately, my stance repeatable, and I'm "seeing" shots better. More to come . . . .

Possibly this is a sequencing issue? Are you shooting and missing long, tough 8-ball cuts or easy shots?

Leaving two key balls for the end of the run, balls nearby the 8-ball, can be a great help.

 

[dquarasr]

Welcome to the human race. Typically, this is called "choking." Choking causes you to tense up otherwise relaxed muscles even when you don't realize it. Take a deep breath before the last ball, realize that you need to remain loose, and shoot. Just knowing what it is might help resolve it.. Success breeds confidence, which keeps the nerves away.

Thanks, Dan. To help, rather than shoot with my focus purely on potting the last ball, I've started selecting a specific spot for the CB to land, making it more like any other shot. Before this, I'd just ensure I wasn't going to scratch. Now I play position (which is what I should have been doing all along anyway). I hope this will help.

Possibly this is a sequencing issue? Are you shooting and missing long, tough 8-ball cuts or easy shots?

Leaving two key balls for the end of the run, balls nearby the 8-ball, can be a great help.

I'm missing very routine easy shots, like two-three feet (or less), 15-30 degree shots.

 

[dquarasr]

Last night, totally brain-farted my way through two matches.

In 9, I was in a 38-19 race against a SL 2. I was up a bunch, but not much more than 2x ball count, which meant it would be a close race as we approached our count targets. Then I had a total brain fart. With us both needing 2 balls to win, I safed my opponent with the 7, 8, and 9 left on the table. His captain called a timeout and advised him to Masse, in which he *barely* touched the OB. I gave him a fist pump for the effort, then to my teammates screaming "NO!!!", I picked up the CB as if it were BIH. For some reason, even though I had congratulated him on making contact, somewhere in my pea brain I decided he had missed. Of course, with BIH, he made the last two balls. Team points 8-12 when it should have been 12-8. Up until then I had actually been shooting pretty well. Speed control was off just a little bit, but my potting was OK.

In 8, I played a former teammate who had just been demoted from 7 to 6. I don't understand how he was demoted. Even he agreed he shouldn't have been moved down, the result of having only something like three weeks of consecutive losses. He's a very good shooter.

I was in every single rack, fighting down to the last few balls, tying up his remaining balls, shooting well, but not quite closing out the racks. I got "bageled" 5-0 in a 4-5 race.

After losing the first two close racks, he snapped in the 8.

In the deciding rack, down 4-0, I had a near 90-degree cut on the 8, about 2" from the corner pocket, with the CB about 4" from the 8. I made the cut, but didn't get my cue out of the way of the rebounding CB, so it came back and hit my tip. Sunk the 8, foul and loss of game, and match.

I don't know why I didn't see that coming. Total brain fart!! But at least I was shooting well, not missing shots I should make. Safeties and CB speed control, however, not so much.

The CB was reacting really weirdly last night, coming off strange angles. One kick I tried out of a safe, the diamonds were perfectly aligned for a two-cushion kick. The CB came off SO shallow, even though I hit it with top, medium speed, no side spin. Even my teammate 7 scratched his head on that one. I had even tested the table during practice, and it was running about one diamond short in the 3-cushion "round the table" shot to the corner. But that didn't prepare me for the weird bounces I got. The 7 on my team also had really weird bounces, too, so it wasn't just me.

Oh, well, there's always next week. This is the first time since I joined APA three years ago I have a losing record in either 8 or 9. Right now I'm 6 of 10 in 8 (but < 50% on points available) and 5 of 11 in 9. Time to make the "big push" with 4 nights left!

Taking at least today off from the table. Maybe. LOL

 

[GoldCrown]

Taking at least today off from the table. Maybe. LOL

Relax and have fun. Enjoy the game. Play the table

 

[dquarasr]

Rather than start a new thread, I'll just report my progress here.

Played in a Scotch Doubles on Sunday. Shot merely OK. I've been accused of "being in my head" too much. It's probably true. @FranCrimi tried to tell me that (likely more than once over various threads). I am always a little unsure on what that means. If I am off, my go-to is to analyze what I'm doing wrong. Many times I can figure it out. But the "you're too much in your head" comment always haunts me.

So, this week at the table, I'm (again!!) forgetting about how to make shots. I'm REALLY trying to forget about it, and just focus on ensuring the cue is pointed exactly where it should go, and then just shoot it. It's kind of amazing how that works. I know this; I forget this and end up in my head; I know it; then before I know it, I'm back in my head. Maddening.

Just a few minutes ago I randomly threw out all the balls (16 of them; I use the Rempe training cue as an OB) and shot them all without missing. When I got to the money ball, I really tried not to think about it. And it went center pocket.

This was the third rack I tried. The first I was out with six misses (I wasn't warmed up when I started). The misses came in threes. That tells me I got in my head after the first miss. The second rack I was out in two misses. The second rack I was fully warmed up, seeing the shots well. It's so weird. If I even THOUGHT ABOUT NOT THINKING ABOUT IT while down on the shot (never mind ACTUALLY thinking about it), I missed.

In the rack where I got out, I really tried to stay out of my head regarding shot execution. I don't think I'm crazy. but 'm pretty sure this is really a thing. I was seeing the shots really well, stroking cleanly. All I thought about while standing was WHAT to execute, not HOW to execute it. Then when down I thought only about ensuring I watched where the CB went, not how I was stroking it.

I'll see if I can, in the heat of league play tonight, replicate this feeling. Ima try REALLY hard to stay tf out of my head. Wish me luck.

 

[dquarasr]

I'll see if I can, in the heat of league play tonight, replicate this feeling. Ima try REALLY hard to stay tf out of my head. Wish me luck.

Won 9-ball (APA) team points 15-5, 38-29 in a 38-46 race. Won 8-ball team points 3-0, 4-0 shutout in a 4-5 race.. I shot pretty well tonight. Made some crazy back cuts and didn't miss many shots I considered shots I should make. Saw the shots well.

My opponent even commented that six months ago, after hanging the 9-ball like two racks in a row, I would have lost my composure. He mentioned that I shook off misses very well and kept a confident approach, stayed loose. It was nice of him to mention it.

So overall, very happy.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Won 9-ball (APA) team points 15-5, 38-29 in a 38-46 race. Won 8-ball team points 3-0, 4-0 shutout in a 4-5 race.. I shot pretty well tonight. Made some crazy back cuts and didn't miss many shots I considered shots I should make. Saw the shots well.

My opponent even commented that six months ago, after hanging the 9-ball like two racks in a row, I would have lost my composure. He mentioned that I shook off misses very well and kept a confident approach, stayed loose. It was nice of him to mention it.

So overall, very happy.

By the time others are noticing and telling you about your own leaps in the mental game you really have come a long way. good on ya.