I was just being silly.
Or maybe I just wanted the thread to go on for another 30 pages.
Everything matters, but good technique, skill, knowledge, experience, intuition, and feel matter the most.
Cue Tip Contact Myth-Busting Truths in Super Slow Motion
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
I was just being silly.
Or maybe I just wanted the thread to go on for another 30 pages.
Everything matters, but good technique, skill, knowledge, experience, intuition, and feel matter the most.
Sounding scientific is not the same as being scientific. Facts are, for this analysis you do not need to give exact Durometer readings, because over an extreme range from soft to hard, which obviously covers the full gamut of Durometer ranges available with commercial tips, Dr. Dave is saying there is no difference. If and only if there was a difference would it be more "scientific" to do finer measures of the Durometer in order to study the shape of the outcome curve in more detail. Since there is no difference over the range available for us, well then it is not more scientific to include an unnecessary scientific measurement.
Have not one clue what you just said. Or care. Seriously???? You actually gonna go all 'durometer range' at this point in the thread?????
In addition to quantitative measurements for cue tip hardness, there should be maximum performance rating for equipment.
Equipment use varies based on player. If more tests existed to decide when to replace equipment, billiard players can ensure proper equipment performance up to a minimum time period.
Equipment use varies based on player. If more tests existed to decide when to replace equipment, billiard players can ensure proper equipment performance up to a minimum time period.
Cues don't wear out. WTF. 'Maximum performance rating'?????? Please buy a bigger bag of Cheetos, keep playing video games/watching Lithuanian midget porn in your mom's basement and leave us alone.
What’s the water test?
They are hitting more accurately near the miscue point. Highly skilled professional players can get more spin at slower speeds by hitting right near the miscue limit. If an amateur tries this he won't be able to do it precisely or repeatedly because his contact points are so variable. This is illustrated very well in the great book by Mark Wilson, "Play Great Pool" (which I think every serious pool player should own), where he shows the difference between a pro and an amateur tip point accuracy. You are simply seeing someone who can accurately hit the cue ball right at the edge of the miscue range.
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You might try reading the post I was responding to. He brought up Durometer measurements and I explained to him why that is not needed.
Here's a good illustration of the effect from PJ (from the maximum spin resource page) showing how a shooter with better tip contact point accuracy and precision can safely aim lower on the CB, and typically get more backspin, than a shooter with less accuracy and precision:
Cue deformation on single piece cues are real.
Have you heard about that issue with carbon fiber?
I don't think there's much practical difference between cues or tips. My rig of 25+ years is a simple custom shaft (low squirt, snooker-size hard tip, stiff hit) on a random wrapless Joss butt that doesn't quite match at the joint. Works better than I do.
pj <- the Indian
chgo
pj <- the Indian
chgo
Here’s a Dr.Dave-like test that might give some support for the soft-tip-believers. It puts speed and draw in competition. If a soft tip can get more grip, it should perform better on this test than the phenolic tip, and in my testing it does.
The cue ball and object ball are always one diamond apart. The goal is to draw the cue ball back to the left short rail, but to do so softly enough that the object ball does not make it all the way back to that same rail. It’s going to depend on the table of course, but you should be able to compare tips on the same table.
The 1 ball is the easiest because the draw is the shortest. I could do this 2 ball shot with my soft tip playing cue but not the phenolic. I had a lot of miscues on both, trying to hit the cue ball really low.
The cue ball and object ball are always one diamond apart. The goal is to draw the cue ball back to the left short rail, but to do so softly enough that the object ball does not make it all the way back to that same rail. It’s going to depend on the table of course, but you should be able to compare tips on the same table.
The 1 ball is the easiest because the draw is the shortest. I could do this 2 ball shot with my soft tip playing cue but not the phenolic. I had a lot of miscues on both, trying to hit the cue ball really low.
Thanks for taking the trouble to actually test, but...
Comparing a leather tip vs. a phenolic tip isn't the same as comparing softer vs. harder leather tips.
Also, I think you need to compare chalk marks to be sure you're comparing same tip offsets.
pj
chgo
I personally don’t have a hard tip playing cue but yeah, I’d like to see that comparison too.
What had surprised me is how effectively I could draw the ball with a phenolic tip in that long-draw test. This one is a better test for what I thought would happen in that last one, because you can’t make up for higher tip placement with more speed.
It would be interesting to look more carefully at tip placement, but all you need to do is the same as on DrDave’s original test, where you try to get out the maximum distance by pushing to the miscue limit, wherever it is on each tip.
You also need to stipulate that the cue must be as level as possible on every shot. If you elevate the back of the cue, you can get more draw on the CB with less OB speed (see quick draw).
I’ll try to give it a go with my BK hybrid tip this week. Thank you for posting the idea and your results.
Don't do it Dave. I'm still upset over that long draw shot with the phenolic tip. I don't have enough medication to endure anymore blows to my lack of ability.
On the 1-ball shot you can just rest the cue on the rail, which ensures the cue angle remains the same.
That’s kind of you, but this drill is more about precision tip position and speed, and not so much about power.
Yup. My experience as well after years of experimenting