Kicking leg on break
- Thread starter kaznj
- Start date
The best reason I heard was to counteract liftoff - which in some events is supposedly a foul. Players like J DeLuna seem to be exempt - from the foul that is.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
It's not that kicking the leg out does anything, it's that generating so much force the way full-body breakers generate that force causes the leg to kick out.
so if it happens, it happens- ? let it go?
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I'm not an instructor, but timing is very important on a break. I would think that if you can hit just as fast/hard with a rock steady and motionless stance you would probably be better off doing so. The trouble is, it's hard to generate force and keep still. Break is the most mechanically unique shot in pool.
Also not an instructor.
It seems to me that so long as you can control the cue ball, moving your body (not just your arm) = a harder break.
I would think the kick just happens as a part of shifting your bodyweight forward.
When I was breaking my second-hardest, I'd have to bring my back foot forward to avoid falling on the table.
But in truth, I think my hardest, I didn't move my feet at all. Everything felt very relaxed. I wasn't that consistent with that break, but when I caught it right the sound would resonate in one of my ears—that was what I looked for.
Now I have tinnitus, but I blame my dogs for that.
This has been fun.
It seems to me that so long as you can control the cue ball, moving your body (not just your arm) = a harder break.
I would think the kick just happens as a part of shifting your bodyweight forward.
When I was breaking my second-hardest, I'd have to bring my back foot forward to avoid falling on the table.
But in truth, I think my hardest, I didn't move my feet at all. Everything felt very relaxed. I wasn't that consistent with that break, but when I caught it right the sound would resonate in one of my ears—that was what I looked for.
Now I have tinnitus, but I blame my dogs for that.
This has been fun.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Pretty much ye. I have a big break and when young and nimble my foot would fly up and kick me in the ass. Not as flexible as I used to be so I tried to limit it. But when I put everything into the break, it has to go somewhere so my back leg finishes across like a bowler. I don't pay it much mind but it does seem to want to go somewhere...just a matter of sending it where your body can handle it. The high kick is bad option for me now so it sweeps across. Again, I don't do it, it happens as a result of other things I do...gives somewhere for that energy to go.
You can get up to an extra 5 mph by thrusting your body forward into the break, but it requires good timing or you will wind up getting the opposite effect of slowing down the break speed.
As for the back leg releasing, the cause depends on your weight distribution at address. Some players prefer to lean on their front leg at address with the body thrust pushing off of the front leg. In those cases, the back leg release is simply the result of the body thrusting forward.
Other players prefer to stay centered or lean slightly back at address and push hard off the back leg, which also causes it to release as the body thrusts forward.
One is a true kick and the other is a lift. I've seen players who start with their weight forward have an animated kick, but really, it's just a habit because that leg is kicking after the fact, as opposed to those who lead with the back leg.
As for the back leg releasing, the cause depends on your weight distribution at address. Some players prefer to lean on their front leg at address with the body thrust pushing off of the front leg. In those cases, the back leg release is simply the result of the body thrusting forward.
Other players prefer to stay centered or lean slightly back at address and push hard off the back leg, which also causes it to release as the body thrusts forward.
One is a true kick and the other is a lift. I've seen players who start with their weight forward have an animated kick, but really, it's just a habit because that leg is kicking after the fact, as opposed to those who lead with the back leg.
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I like this explanation.
I don't do much pool but few years ago I was watching a few notable breakers and listening to them talk about the technique.
LOL I later got on a table and attempted the "lengthening the lever length" and "moving the body forward" and .. and ..
It was complete and catastrophic tragedy.
You didn't expect to accomplish it in one go, did you? You have to give yourself a few months to get the timing down.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Alex Lely shared a story recently of asking a top power breaker (with precision) what his secret was. I forgot the guy's name, but his answer was, "If you break 8hrs a day for 3 or 4 months straight, you'll figure it out."
The power break is second nature to me atm and I perform it with ease, seemingly doing just a couple of things with good timing even tho it looks like there is a lot more going on. But this did take 100s of hours to develop. Learning a power break is like learning a golf swing...a rare few will be able to learn it quickly, even with expert guidance. The body needs to learn to coordinate such a move, and this takes training. In this light, trying to do it for a day or two, is the same as not trying at all.
edit: I will say tho, that you can have SOME success very quickly, where things click and you produce that big CB speed. The issue in making it a workable break shot to use in a game is to marry that increased power with precision. There is little value in generating a lot of speed, if you are hitting the rack in the wrong spot and possibly losing the CB off the table and surrendering BIH fairly often.
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Newton's Third: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
If you are right-handed and try to press your left foot down into the floor/rug on the break, you tend to lift your right leg with the forward stroke.
It looks cool,or so some think.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Wrong.
This.
To elaborate for those to whom pressing the front foot into the ground is a foreign concept (which I avoided mentioning originally to save for breaking lessons but Matt was so generous to share with yall)...
What isn't so obvious to those who aren't adept throwers or accustomed to using their full body to produce forceful arm swings is the use of ground forces in driving the arms.
When you use ground forces, you press your front foot into the ground. As you post-up on your front leg, this triggers a series of reactions through the body, one of which is a forceful arm swing. Another is a passive lift of the back leg which can play out in a variety of ways depending on your flexibility, level of tension in the body, and amount of force produced. Some will have a subtle lift of the back leg, others will see a flamingo dancer-esque Busty finish like the one I had as a young man kicking himself in the ass on every big break.
But, as I originally mentioned, the leg kick doesn't contribute anything in itself, it is a reaction to what is done to perform a forceful swing, namely, pressing the front foot into the ground forcefully. As an old pro told me when I was practising my break 20 years ago: "You know you've got it, when you can shoot it with your feet".
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I'm no physics professor, but I'm pretty sure it prevents them from falling over.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
You also don't need to be a physiology professor to understand that hip bone's connected to the leg bone. As the front leg presses into the ground and straightens, the hips raise up. As the hips raise up, so does the other leg attached to them.I'm no physics professor, but I'm pretty sure it prevents them from falling over.
In my experience, most players already have trouble controlling the cue ball on the break. They are nowhere near squatting the cue ball. It flies forwards and backwards and sideways and frequently finds a pocket. For those players to incorporate something that will make them even less stable and their break even less controlled seems like a bad idea.
As for why pros kick their back leg back, mechanically it seems that rotating the back leg back could give a corresponding rotation of the upper body forward. What we need is a sports kinesiologist. Has pool ever had the attention of one?
I wonder if there's a correlation between kicking the back leg and standing up during the break (to lengthen the arm).
pj
chgo
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
read my posts above. short answer: yes