Corner pocket miter angles

[Coos Cues]

Fine with me buddy

So here is the pocket angle gauge. Made from a simple framing square. The outer aluminum strips fits in the feather strip with the rails bolted down in place

And here is the side pocket gauge, again fits in the feather strip.

Next the lines are drawn with a sharp pencil after bolting the rails down in their final location on the slate. Notice the right hand compared to the left hand. Right off the diamond assembly line. And this wasn't the worst one, just the one I took a photo of. Had the rails been short of the desired size Glen would have had to extend them before marking them with the pencil. Fortunately not necessary on my table.

Next is the sled with the compound miter saw, sanding disc in place. The sled is designed to use the feather strip again for perfect alignment.

Now here is the rail in the sled on a corner pocket. Compound saw set exactly for opening angle and down angle as desired. Rail in perfect alignment using feather strip. Feed it into the sanding disc ever so gently and cut that pencil line in half. Very cool to observe!

Here is the same operation on a side pocket

The finished product off the sanding disc

And then with the facing installed

This operation was just a small fraction of all the precise repairs and modifications the RKC did on my old diamond table. He changed the angle of the rails where the rubber glues on first to make it "Blue Label". Which was another equally enlightening and fascinating operation.

The enjoyment this table has brought to my life up until this very day is immeasurable.

I know there are haters out there for various reasons but IMO this man is a genius at what he does and some other things as well.

Hope you enjoyed!

 

[fat tony]

So here is the pocket angle gauge. Made from a simple framing square. The outer aluminum strips fits in the feather strip with the rails bolted down in place

And here is the side pocket gauge, again fits in the feather strip.
View attachment 693126
Next the lines are drawn with a sharp pencil after bolting the rails down in their final location on the slate. Notice the right hand compared to the left hand. Right off the diamond assembly line. And this wasn't the worst one, just the one I took a photo of. Had the rails been short of the desired size Glen would have had to extend them before marking them with the pencil. Fortunately not necessary on my table.
View attachment 693127
Next is the sled with the compound miter saw, sanding disc in place. The sled is designed to use the feather strip again for perfect alignment.
View attachment 693128
Now here is the rail in the sled on a corner pocket. Compound saw set exactly for opening angle and down angle as desired. Rail in perfect alignment using feather strip. Feed it into the sanding disc ever so gently and cut that pencil line in half. Very cool to observe!
View attachment 693129
Here is the same operation on a side pocket
View attachment 693130
The finished product off the sanding disc
View attachment 693131
And then with the facing installedView attachment 693132

This operation was just a small fraction of all the precise repairs and modifications the RKC did on my old diamond table. He changed the angle of the rails where the rubber glues on first to make it "Blue Label". Which was another equally enlightening and fascinating operation.

The enjoyment this table has brought to my life up until this very day is immeasurable.

I know there are haters out there for various reasons but IMO this man is a genius at what he does and some other things as well.

Hope you enjoyed!

Wow that is quite the operation and the attention to detail of Glen's work is amazing, thanks for sharing! That way you get those exact, repeatable pockets every time. A class act all the way.

I had a go with my project table today, and wanted to share some progress pics and ask for advice. I'm concerned about what angle I should cut the extension pieces to and still be able to fit the pocket. I took some pictures and hoped someone had the knowledge to give me some guidance.

In the picture with the pocket rubber bent, you can see how much the subrail extension is in the way. I was wondering if I should just cut the extension where the rail ends, as shown the in last picture. I just don't want there to be a gap where the pocket facing ends and the pocket begins. In the second picture you can see how far the corner piece is from the correct position.

At this point I'm thinking I'll make room in the extension so that the pocket fits, and then I'll cut he extensions to the correct angle (140 degrees, 4" corners and 4.5 or 4.75" sides with 102 degree miters). If anyone has a better idea of the correct work order, I appreciate any and all advice.

 

[Sheldon]

So here is the pocket angle gauge. Made from a simple framing square. The outer aluminum strips fits in the feather strip with the rails bolted down in place

And here is the side pocket gauge, again fits in the feather strip.
View attachment 693126
Next the lines are drawn with a sharp pencil after bolting the rails down in their final location on the slate. Notice the right hand compared to the left hand. Right off the diamond assembly line. And this wasn't the worst one, just the one I took a photo of. Had the rails been short of the desired size Glen would have had to extend them before marking them with the pencil. Fortunately not necessary on my table.
View attachment 693127
Next is the sled with the compound miter saw, sanding disc in place. The sled is designed to use the feather strip again for perfect alignment.
View attachment 693128
Now here is the rail in the sled on a corner pocket. Compound saw set exactly for opening angle and down angle as desired. Rail in perfect alignment using feather strip. Feed it into the sanding disc ever so gently and cut that pencil line in half. Very cool to observe!
View attachment 693129
Here is the same operation on a side pocket
View attachment 693130
The finished product off the sanding disc
View attachment 693131
And then with the facing installedView attachment 693132

This operation was just a small fraction of all the precise repairs and modifications the RKC did on my old diamond table. He changed the angle of the rails where the rubber glues on first to make it "Blue Label". Which was another equally enlightening and fascinating operation.

The enjoyment this table has brought to my life up until this very day is immeasurable.

I know there are haters out there for various reasons but IMO this man is a genius at what he does and some other things as well.

Hope you enjoyed!

Having re-clothed that table after Glen rebuilt it, I can say that his work is beyond reproach. His attention to detail and the execution of the modifications he made were near perfect. The 3 slates were bolted together and are flat enough to pass for 1 piece. I wish every table job I did was that easy to follow up on.

 

[realkingcobra]

Wow that is quite the operation and the attention to detail of Glen's work is amazing, thanks for sharing! That way you get those exact, repeatable pockets every time. A class act all the way.

I had a go with my project table today, and wanted to share some progress pics and ask for advice. I'm concerned about what angle I should cut the extension pieces to and still be able to fit the pocket. I took some pictures and hoped someone had the knowledge to give me some guidance.

In the picture with the pocket rubber bent, you can see how much the subrail extension is in the way. I was wondering if I should just cut the extension where the rail ends, as shown the in last picture. I just don't want there to be a gap where the pocket facing ends and the pocket begins. In the second picture you can see how far the corner piece is from the correct position.

At this point I'm thinking I'll make room in the extension so that the pocket fits, and then I'll cut he extensions to the correct angle (140 degrees, 4" corners and 4.5 or 4.75" sides with 102 degree miters). If anyone has a better idea of the correct work order, I appreciate any and all advice.

The pocket liner shouldn't extend past the finish of the formica, if they then they're the wrong pocket liners, but, you can still cut/trim them to fit, which is right behind your extensions.

 

[fat tony]

The pocket liner shouldn't extend past the finish of the formica, if they then they're the wrong pocket liners, but, you can still cut/trim them to fit, which is right behind your extensions.

Alright, I will trim the pockets so that they will stay behind the formica. Thanks!

 

[fat tony]

Trying to figure out how to make the pocket jig. I'll get there, eventually

 

[The_JV]

At this point I'm thinking I'll make room in the extension so that the pocket fits, and then I'll cut he extensions to the correct angle (140 degrees, 4" corners and 4.5 or 4.75" sides with 102 degree miters). If anyone has a better idea of the correct work order, I appreciate any and all advice.

Not a table mechanic, but I've been down this road myself.

Rule of thumb is that sides are 0.5" larger than corners, not 0.75" (look at Glen's jigs). Does the suggestion that sides shouldn't be smaller than 4.75" hold water...? Sure, but I don't think tables should have 4" corners either...lol. If you're going to have ridiculously tight corners then why fret over slightly tighter sides..?

In the end I personally would just do whatever Glen suggested. However without his 2 cents. My personal and unprofessional opinion is that pockets should follow a standard sizing methodology to maintain uniform difficulty.

• 4.75" corners = 5.25" sides
• 4.5" corners = 5" sides
• 4.0 corners = 4.5" sides

Good luck on the rest of your build.

...and for what it's worth. I was set up to use Glen's sanding disk method, but opted to 'chop saw' the miters. I didn't have the feather strip guides he uses and I was concerned about not feeding the rails squarely into the sanding disk. I also had a decent amount of material to remove after extending my subrails.

In the first pic you can see the first test cut I attempted. I was worried about tearing the cushion material, but it cut like butter. You can also see that I don't complete my finish cut. That was due to the blade geometry vs my distance from the fence. If I built out the fence further I could have done it in a complete cut and missed the back side of the rail. However I opted to take advantage of the clamping features my saw provided instead, and cleaning up the miter manually took moments. The second pic shows you the type of results you can expect from a fresh 80T blade. If you take your time and focus on the set up. If you look real close to the bottom left corner you'll see the pull saw marks of my flush cut blade.

 

[fat tony]

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate! I went with 4" corners and 4.5" sides Aside from pool, the table is used to play "snooker" with pool ball sized snooker balls, and I thought it would be appropriate if we had that table with properly tight pockets and Simonis 760 green cloth. We have another two 9ft pool tables as well which have a more forgiving setup.

Today I finished the pockets jigs and made new angle markings to the rails. I was a tad afraid as to how the miter saw would work if I tried to cut the rails and cushion, just the way you did. So I glued a piece of cushion rubber to a piece of wood, let it set for a few hours and made a test cut. The saw blade (Dewalt 80T wood blade, not in the best condition anymore) ripped a small piece from the nose of the cushion away, even though I went really slow with it. After a while I did another test cut, and there was a loud *bang*, when the rubber piece (about 5cm) was completely torn from the wood and flung across the room. I'm thinking I either need to buy a fresh cutting blade, or a sanding disk like Glen suggested. I haven't decided which way to go yet, since a also have quite a bit of material to remove.

Your pics show a very nice cut with a fresh blade, so I'm thinking maybe I'll go that way too. If I do, test cuts will be on the menu again, for sure.

 

[The_JV]

If you attempt the blade cut again, consider two things. One: as you already know, a fresh carbide tooth blade. Second: consider a sacrificial zero clearance fence.

I can't tell you that I used a zero clearance fence throughout my miter cuts, because I didn't. I didn't experience any problems such as you have. However, when I set the saw up for the opposite miter. It did end up this way...

So what you have there is fence support on the cushion all the way to the cut you're making. This prevents tear away. Also doubles as a legitimately 100% accurate cut guide.

I would have done the same for the opposite miter if I experienced any issues with tear out.

Another suggestion is to lube the saw blade prior to each cut, to prevent the blade from pulling the rubber. This isn't something I experience or used. Just something I read.

In theory.... If you have a sharp blade, your set up is tight, and you pull down into the work piece without side loading. You should produce a very accurate cut without any drama.

Good Luck

 

[fat tony]

Yes I'll definately have to make a zero clearance fence, whatever ups my chances of not having to buy a seconds set of rubbers and do all the work again. Thanks, I hadn't thought about that!

 

[fat tony]

Ok, I think I need help from more knowleable people on this one, please.

The last slate screws on the long side of the table keep throwing my level readings from the center slate to the end of the table off. I refer to Glen's levelling picture attached.

The reading from L1 to L6 and R1 to R6 are spot on. When I go and tighten the slate screws on the long side of the table close to L3 and R3 (and trying to get the slate level side to side from the end of the table), the reading from L1 to L6 drops towards the end of the table, making the end slate sag towards the head of the table.

Is the solution to keep the level reading high from L1 to L6 towards the end of the table, even when those slate screws and tightened snug, and THEN bring it all down by tightening the L3 slate screw? Somehow I don't think so, not knowing why I don't hink so

Quite lost here, so if anyone can give some direction it could really help me out.

 

[realkingcobra]

Have you superglued the slates together yet?

 

[fat tony]

Have you superglued the slates together yet?

The other seam is glued already, the other is not which is where the problem is. The end of the table that is already glued is very good: slates and the seam really nice and tight.

 

[realkingcobra]

The other seam is glued already, the other is not which is where the problem is. The end of the table that is already glued is very good: slates and the seam really nice and tight.

Then what are you waiting for, glue the other seam too.

 

[fat tony]

Then what are you waiting for, glue the other seam too.

Gluing the other seam is not the problem, at least not now.

Going by your slate diagram, when I level from L1 to L6 and R1 to R6, everything is great. Then I bring up L5 to L6 and R5 to R6, everything still great. But when I tighten the last slate screws close to L3 and R3 on the long side of the table, L1 and R1 both read low in relation to L5/6 and R5/6, so the slate is sagging towards the head end of the table.

I just don't know if I should let L1 to L6 and R1 to R6 read *high* towards the head end of the table, and then tighten L3 andf R3 slate screws to bring it all down, or what. Somehow I'd like to leave those two slate screws a little "loose-snug", not like properly gnat's arse - tight.

 

[realkingcobra]

Gluing the other seam is not the problem, at least not now.

Going by your slate diagram, when I level from L1 to L6 and R1 to R6, everything is great. Then I bring up L5 to L6 and R5 to R6, everything still great. But when I tighten the last slate screws close to L3 and R3 on the long side of the table, L1 and R1 both read low in relation to L5/6 and R5/6, so the slate is sagging towards the head end of the table.

I just don't know if I should let L1 to L6 and R1 to R6 read *high* towards the head end of the table, and then tighten L3 andf R3 slate screws to bring it all down, or what. Somehow I'd like to leave those two slate screws a little "loose-snug", not like properly gnat's arse - tight.

To many people insist on using all the slate screws just because there's a hole and a screw goes in it. All I use is 4 slate screws, keeps the slate from moving around on the frame, but don't change the level, until you screw them down to the frame. The problem is in the flatness of the frame, not the slate.

 

[fat tony]

Alright, what I'll do is wedge those L3 and R3 slate screw points from the side of the table snug, and then put those screws in loose-snug.
Thanks!

 

[The_JV]

To many people insist on using all the slate screws just because there's a hole and a screw goes in it. All I use is 4 slate screws, keeps the slate from moving around on the frame, but don't change the level, until you screw them down to the frame. The problem is in the flatness of the frame, not the slate.

I followed Glenn's advice to the letter on this one. Went from several slate screws to only 4.

...and even those are only tight enough to prevent the slate from being to shift around on the frame.

 

[realkingcobra]

I followed Glenn's advice to the letter on this one. When from several slate screws to only 4.

...and even those are only tight enough to prevent the slate from being to shift around on the frame.

What a world of difference

 

[fat tony]

Well, yesterday was a bit of a bummer. Took the rails to a carpenter's shop that had a proper big sliding saw with a billion-toothed very sharp blade. Used sacrificial wood too against the cushion, but the blade kept chipping the cushion nose so that it tore a small bit away almost every time. The first test cut was perfect, but after that we had to give up. Had to take one cushion off the rail and glue it again, luckily the cushion is long enough so there is still plenty of rubber to cut and go all wrong.

I'll have to try the sanding disk method on my miter saw, but I can't source those sanding disks anywhere. I'm thinking about buying those round sanding papers and just gluing those to my miter saw blade. Or is that what you guys mean by the sanding disk method anyway? Or is the disk like a dedicated disk, and not a glued one on the miter saw blade?