Scott Frost's opinion about Predator tables

KUKABUKA said:
Predator undoubtedly is trying to make money

Predator is also trying to grow the sport (presumably so they can make more money)

Scott's post was a lot of complaining about..... I'm not sure what ?

I feel my "review" of their table from August 20th, 2022 is relevant here....tldr yup played like a pool table covered in predator logos.

The review:

I participated in part of the tournament and also played on a table with friends for several hours. Strictly on the 7' version.

They were honestly pretty nice and I enjoyed playing on them. Pocketing was moderately easier than on a diamond. I didn't measure pocket size, they seemed close to diamond size but I personally rattled a lot less balls than I do on a diamond, without feeling like I was being particularly precise. I suspect the pocket shelf and/or pocket facings are just more accepting.

They banked a bit funny. The rails didn't seem to grab side spin overly well. I don't know if this is due to brand new cloth or if the rails are just funny. The cloth was very fast.

The tables were VERY quiet. Very very quiet, I was thrilled about that. I didnt have any balls get stuck in the ball return.

One table I played on had a cracked section - I can't think of the word but the part where you'd rest your bridge hand for a shot that is close to the rail, the veneer or whatever it is. Don't know how it cracked, it was 4 or 5 inches long and was surprising to see considering the age of the average valley rail and how those never seem busted up.

Every table also had their fancy new rack which...was fine. If you're buying a table and it comes with it - great. But I wouldn't spend any money on it. I encountered a rack where one of the risers (it's a thin triangle mounted on 3 risers which then provides less drag on the cloth) was coming loose, I just tightened it by hand and it was fine.

The predator rectangle perimeter style light was also mounted above every table. Quite pleasant to play with though a lot of them were poorly hung, just not level, I imagine that was just the nature of it being a tournament with lots of prep to complete in minimal time. Holy expensive though I think they wanted 1200USD or something.

The predator Arcos 2 balls or whatever they are were nice, no complaints except that I personally hate having a cat face where there should be the second # but whatever. After my first few racks of 10 ball I got worried for a moment that they were being blasphemous and using a purple 5 and I was shooting out of order...this was not the case, the 5 ball was thankfully ORANGE.

I'm personally not a fan of Predator branding at all so I must say.......HOLY GIANT CATS EVERYWHERE. The table itself was a fine shape for a bar box but jeepers they are obsessed with plastering giant cats on everything, making the tables fairly ugly to look at on the superficial level. I feel this way about most predator stuff though, so take it as you will.

All in all, I liked them more than I expected I would. At 8000 USD for a 7' (I think this was the price) though, it better be damn good. It was about $1000 per giant cat printed on the side of the table, give or take.
Click to expand...
$1200 more than a Diamond 7ft ProAm, and only 10% built as good!!
 
KUKABUKA said:
Predator undoubtedly is trying to make money

Predator is also trying to grow the sport (presumably so they can make more money)

Scott's post was a lot of complaining about..... I'm not sure what ?

I feel my "review" of their table from August 20th, 2022 is relevant here....tldr yup played like a pool table covered in predator logos.

The review:

I participated in part of the tournament and also played on a table with friends for several hours. Strictly on the 7' version.

They were honestly pretty nice and I enjoyed playing on them. Pocketing was moderately easier than on a diamond. I didn't measure pocket size, they seemed close to diamond size but I personally rattled a lot less balls than I do on a diamond, without feeling like I was being particularly precise. I suspect the pocket shelf and/or pocket facings are just more accepting.

They banked a bit funny. The rails didn't seem to grab side spin overly well. I don't know if this is due to brand new cloth or if the rails are just funny. The cloth was very fast.

The tables were VERY quiet. Very very quiet, I was thrilled about that. I didnt have any balls get stuck in the ball return.

One table I played on had a cracked section - I can't think of the word but the part where you'd rest your bridge hand for a shot that is close to the rail, the veneer or whatever it is. Don't know how it cracked, it was 4 or 5 inches long and was surprising to see considering the age of the average valley rail and how those never seem busted up.

Every table also had their fancy new rack which...was fine. If you're buying a table and it comes with it - great. But I wouldn't spend any money on it. I encountered a rack where one of the risers (it's a thin triangle mounted on 3 risers which then provides less drag on the cloth) was coming loose, I just tightened it by hand and it was fine.

The predator rectangle perimeter style light was also mounted above every table. Quite pleasant to play with though a lot of them were poorly hung, just not level, I imagine that was just the nature of it being a tournament with lots of prep to complete in minimal time. Holy expensive though I think they wanted 1200USD or something.

The predator Arcos 2 balls or whatever they are were nice, no complaints except that I personally hate having a cat face where there should be the second # but whatever. After my first few racks of 10 ball I got worried for a moment that they were being blasphemous and using a purple 5 and I was shooting out of order...this was not the case, the 5 ball was thankfully ORANGE.

I'm personally not a fan of Predator branding at all so I must say.......HOLY GIANT CATS EVERYWHERE. The table itself was a fine shape for a bar box but jeepers they are obsessed with plastering giant cats on everything, making the tables fairly ugly to look at on the superficial level. I feel this way about most predator stuff though, so take it as you will.

All in all, I liked them more than I expected I would. At 8000 USD for a 7' (I think this was the price) though, it better be damn good. It was about $1000 per giant cat printed on the side of the table, give or take.
Click to expand...
$1200 more than a Diamond 7ft ProAm, and only 10% built as good!!
 
realkingcobra said:
That's how you sell Predator pool tables, by turning them into Diamonds with straight across trades, on the promise of getting the locations into BIG money events, sometime to come in the future, MEANWHILE selling off the Diamonds because there's a MARKET for them, NOT for Predators!!
Click to expand...
RKC,
If you are going to bash a product, service or company, here on the AZB site, especially with blanket statements minus specifics, you need to contact Mike @azhousepro, before proceeding. There are rules on the site concerning doing so, without attaching your full name to the post. In the future, use specifics, not profanity to discuss products, services, and/or companies, on the site. Failure to do so going forward, will likely result in a ban of your account.
Thank you for your cooperation.
j2
 
From the posted rules:

Complaints

Complaints about products, services or organizations require accountability (your entire real name signed on the post).

If you posted a complaint please edit your post to include your full, real name or the post will be removed.

Moderation Change and Rules Clarification

Some of you may have noticed a small change, as far as moderation goes, here on the forums. @MajorMiscue and @j2pac are new moderators and with their stepping in as moderators, now is a good time to clarify some of the rules here. This will not affect many of you, but those who like to post in...
forums.azbilliards.com
 
Yesterday I was practicing some 10 ball on a 9' ProAm Blue label. When I went to scoop out the balls the 7 and 10 ball were missing. WTH, I started throwing balls into the pockets and couldn't get the 7 and 10 to come out. I went to the front desk and asked them to open the table and get the balls out. The desk guy said there's no way to get to the rail tracks from the two panels under the table, and just keep playing, they'll eventually come out. Seems like a design flaw in the ProAm tables.

Maybe Predator should have worked with Diamond to make an improved version of the ProAm to stuck all those ugly stickers on the new and improved version. But no, Predator had to use SAM to build some third-rate ugly bar box.
 
j2pac said:
RKC,
If you are going to bash a product, service or company, here on the AZB site, especially with blanket statements minus specifics, you need to contact Mike @azhousepro, before proceeding. There are rules on the site concerning doing so, without attaching your full name to the post. In the future, use specifics, not profanity to discuss products, services, and/or companies, on the site. Failure to do so going forward, will likely result in a ban of your account.
Thank you for your cooperation.
j2
Click to expand...
Having worked directly with the public for some 40+ years this makes me enjoy each day.

When my client has a problem.... I choose to offer them Options vs Opinions.

For someone to somehow ''opinionate'' an option, diminishes their expertise.
That person has so much more to offer.
We all know the Daihatsu sucked, but I find it more interesting why?
Which engine/framework etc needed to be revamped.
The Snake has so much Good Knowledge, just at times too many teeth in the way. :) Jose'
 
j2pac said:
RKC,
If you are going to bash a product, service or company, here on the AZB site, especially with blanket statements minus specifics, you need to contact Mike @azhousepro, before proceeding. There are rules on the site concerning doing so, without attaching your full name to the post. In the future, use specifics, not profanity to discuss products, services, and/or companies, on the site. Failure to do so going forward, will likely result in a ban of your account.
Thank you for your cooperation.
j2
Click to expand...
Glen Hancock 702-927-5689 aka Real King Cobra!! 40 years working as a professional pool table mechanic!! Manufacturered home style pool tables!! Designed and manufactured King Cobra Coin operated pool tables, which lead to the design and production of the Diamond Smart tables, ProAms, and Professionals!! Invented the Diamond Ball polisher! Designed the RKC250 Adhesive. Owned 3 pool halls in the past 40 years!! Designed the Ridgeback replacement rails!!

Should I go on?
 
j2pac said:
RKC,
If you are going to bash a product, service or company, here on the AZB site, especially with blanket statements minus specifics, you need to contact Mike @azhousepro, before proceeding. There are rules on the site concerning doing so, without attaching your full name to the post. In the future, use specifics, not profanity to discuss products, services, and/or companies, on the site. Failure to do so going forward, will likely result in a ban of your account.
Thank you for your cooperation.
j2
Click to expand...
MajorMiscue said:
From the posted rules:

Complaints

Complaints about products, services or organizations require accountability (your entire real name signed on the post).

If you posted a complaint please edit your post to include your full, real name or the post will be removed.

Moderation Change and Rules Clarification

Some of you may have noticed a small change, as far as moderation goes, here on the forums. @MajorMiscue and @j2pac are new moderators and with their stepping in as moderators, now is a good time to clarify some of the rules here. This will not affect many of you, but those who like to post in...
forums.azbilliards.com
Click to expand...

:mad:
Really? I'm pretty sure everyone knows what RKC's real name is, anyone messing with tables very much probably has his phone number, I know I do.

RKC is one of the few people knowledgeable enough to make a comment on the build quality and he gets a warning over this right at the point it seems he might speak on the question everyone is asking.

I guess there were older threads when predator just came out with the tables where he did say some of his concerns.

This rule is beyond dumb when it's dealing with a well known forum member. You know, one with his real name out there on a lot of stuff, a titan of the mechanic industry, one who readily gives out his personal phone number to help people out.

In the 3 decades I've been on various forums, I've never seen one besides AZB which puts so much stock in "real names." If you guys don't want us using screen names or alias names, then make us use real names and submit a government issued ID. Such a stupid rule for a fricking internet forum. Oh my... let me wring my hands... somebody on the internet is using a screen name! Oh the humanity!o_O
:mad:
 
j2pac said:
RKC,
If you are going to bash a product, service or company, here on the AZB site, especially with blanket statements minus specifics, you need to contact Mike @azhousepro, before proceeding. There are rules on the site concerning doing so, without attaching your full name to the post. In the future, use specifics, not profanity to discuss products, services, and/or companies, on the site. Failure to do so going forward, will likely result in a ban of your account.
Thank you for your cooperation.
j2
Click to expand...
Glen Hancock 702-927-5689 aka Real King Cobra!! 40 years working as a professional pool table mechanic!! Manufacturered home style pool tables!! Designed and manufactured King Cobra Coin operated pool tables, which lead to the design and production of the Diamond Smart tables, ProAms, and Professionals!! Invented the Diamond Ball polisher! Designed the RKC250 Adhesive. Owned 3 pool halls in the past 40 years!! Designed the Ridgeback replacement rails!!

Should I go on?
 
jtompilot said:
Yesterday I was practicing some 10 ball on a 9' ProAm Blue label. When I went to scoop out the balls the 7 and 10 ball were missing. WTH, I started throwing balls into the pockets and couldn't get the 7 and 10 to come out. I went to the front desk and asked them to open the table and get the balls out. The desk guy said there's no way to get to the rail tracks from the two panels under the table, and just keep playing, they'll eventually come out. Seems like a design flaw in the ProAm tables.

Maybe Predator should have worked with Diamond to make an improved version of the ProAm to stuck all those ugly stickers on the new and improved version. But no, Predator had to use SAM to build some third-rate ugly bar box.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should have looked in the middle of the table through the rack opening to see what was blocking the balls, then cleared them out! That's how the table was designed!!
 
realkingcobra said:
Glen Hancock 702-927-5689 aka Real King Cobra!! 40 years working as a professional pool table mechanic!! Manufacturered home style pool tables!! Designed and manufactured King Cobra Coin operated pool tables, which lead to the design and production of the Diamond Smart tables, ProAms, and Professionals!! Invented the Diamond Ball polisher! Designed the RKC250 Adhesive. Owned 3 pool halls in the past 40 years!! Designed the Ridgeback replacement rails!!

Should I go on?
Click to expand...
I appreciate the response. Given your credentials, it would appear that you should have no problem, providing specifics, and leaving the profanity laced, generalized blanket statements, elsewhere when discussing table/product specifics. Your cooperation with the rules of the forum, and the site, are appreciated going forward.
Regards
j2
 
boogieman said:
:mad:
Really? I'm pretty sure everyone knows what RKC's real name is, anyone messing with tables very much probably has his phone number, I know I do.

RKC is one of the few people knowledgeable enough to make a comment on the build quality and he gets a warning over this right at the point it seems he might speak on the question everyone is asking.

I guess there were older threads when predator just came out with the tables where he did say some of his concerns.

This rule is beyond dumb when it's dealing with a well known forum member. You know, one with his real name out there on a lot of stuff, a titan of the mechanic industry, one who readily gives out his personal phone number to help people out.

In the 3 decades I've been on various forums, I've never seen one besides AZB which puts so much stock in "real names." If you guys don't want us using screen names or alias names, then make us use real names and submit a government issued ID. Such a stupid rule for a fricking internet forum. Oh my... let me wring my hands... somebody on the internet is using a screen name! Oh the humanity!o_O
:mad:
Click to expand...
The forum/site rules are pretty clear. If you don't like them, there are options...Contact a Moderator via PM, or contact Mike directly @azhousepro.
Your cooperation is appreciated.
 
j2pac said:
I appreciate the response. Given your credentials, it would appear that you should have no problem, providing specifics, and leaving the profanity laced, generalized blanket statements, elsewhere when discussing table/product specifics. Your cooperation with the rules of the forum, and the site, are appreciated going forward.
Regards
j2
Click to expand...
Now I have a question for you. How could you be a member of AZB for the last 15 years, and NOT know who I am??
 
realkingcobra said:
Now I have a question for you. How could you be a member of AZB for the last 15 years, and NOT know who I am??
Click to expand...
Glen,
I know who you are. Whether I personally know who you are, or not, isn't the point. You have the knowledge, and the credentials, to point out grievances with respect to product design, specification, etc, in a different manner, than to resort to generalized, profanity laced tirades. The rules are clear. You have the knowledge, now find the ability.
Regards
j2
 
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