Why Do So Many Bar Room Recreational 8-Ball Players Cling to the Nonsense Outdated Rules?

[ChrisinNC]

Just curious if this is just in our area (NC) or is it everywhere? Why are so many recreational bar room 8-ball players so ignorant as to the sensible 8-ball rules to play by?

Ball-in-hand behind the headstring on all scratches and when your only balls or 8-ball is behind the headstring you’re expected to kick down and back just to hit it - really? This is just one of the many screwed up ancient rules that makes absolutely no sense that still lives in many of not a majority of bars that have a few tables for customers to play on, generally while consuming alcohol.

How do you go about educating the regular players and changing the culture of rules to play by in a bar room, unless it’s the manager or owner who lays down the law? I’m guessing most of them are likely also ignorant of the rules or just don’t care.

It’s just amazing to me how these rules have managed to survive on such a widespread basis for half a century, when most of the players who adhere to them weren’t even born at the time the rules were changed?

 

[RD123]

I'm in Canada. It's everywhere. I won't play the game in Bar. Too many conflicts. My sons friend came over one night to play and he used those rules. So when he was shooting the black ball ait was behind the headstrong I would scratch on purpose. Give him his ball in hand and make him kick at it. He never won a game.

Just curious if this is just in our area (NC) or is it everywhere? Why are so many recreational bar room 8-ball players so ignorant as to the sensible 8-ball rules to play by?

Ball-in-hand behind the headstring on all scratches and when your only balls or 8-ball is behind the headstring you’re expected to kick down and back just to hit it - really? This is just one of the many screwed up ancient rules that makes absolutely no sense that still lives in many of not a majority of bars that have a few tables for customers to play on, generally while consuming alcohol.

How do you go about educating the regular players and changing the culture of rules to play by in a bar room, unless it’s the manager or owner who lays down the law? I’m guessing most of them are likely also ignorant of the rules or just don’t carekick at it. He never won a game.

 

[jtompilot]

Just curious if this is just in our area (NC) or is it everywhere? Why are so many recreational bar room 8-ball players so ignorant as to the sensible 8-ball rules to play by?

Ball-in-hand behind the headstring on all scratches and when your only balls or 8-ball is behind the headstring you’re expected to kick down and back just to hit it - really? This is just one of the many screwed up ancient rules that makes absolutely no sense that still lives in many of not a majority of bars that have a few tables for customers to play on, generally while consuming alcohol.

How do you go about educating the regular players and changing the culture of rules to play by in a bar room, unless it’s the manager or owner who lays down the law? I’m guessing most of them are likely also ignorant of the rules or just don’t care.

C and D players for life Don’t bother telling them about double hit fouls. Crazy $ss leagues

 

[Island Drive]

You can't change normal.

I played in a league a few yrs back in Fremont County/CO. They had league rules, but each bar in the league had their own ''house rules'' that had nothing to do with league rules.
In one of the bars it's ok to smoke cigarettes inside.
We also have many prison guards (Supermax) and many prisons in our area (15?).
Mindsets of many that work in these institutions for deacdes, are far from normal.

 

[Banger]

Why? Because they are bar room recreational 8-ball players. Those are the rules someone taught them years ago, so those are the rules they go by. They won't change, because "Everyone I know plays this way".

 

[Bob Jewett]

Just curious if this is just in our area (NC) or is it everywhere? Why are so many recreational bar room 8-ball players so ignorant as to the sensible 8-ball rules to play by? ...

I think part of the blame has to go on tournament directors, league operators and bar owners/staff. I used to play in a fairly large local league that had a rule: "No safes." I don't remember what they did about kicking at balls behind the line after a scratch. "House Rules" could be the real rules.

 

[FunChamp]

Just outside Ft. Polk in the mid 90's I played at a bar called the Sugar Shack. They would have little weekend tournaments. Well I naturally would play safe when the situation was appropriate. I didn't understand why the local players would get so mad when I would play safe. The owner finally came up to me and said that you are expected to shoot at EVERYTHING. He then proceeded to tell me that they didn't play African American pool. Only he didn't say African American. Ahem! Just so happened that one of the guys I played with frequently on Post was a black man who was far better at pool than I was at the time. He also was a big dude who had muscles on muscles. I told him my experience. He went down there and won their weekend tournament so many times in a row that they banned him from playing in it. That was awesome!

 

[telinoz]

Because they want an unbalanced game.
They can't play call shot.
They get upset when someone can pot more than 2 balls in a row..

 

[soyale]

People hate being wrong and really hate being told they are wrong. Usually this results in doubling down on their beliefs resulting in outright stubbornness to learn something new

 

[Korsakoff]

As I was growing up playing pool, I always asked about the rules in a new place. There seemed to be a core group of rules common in most places (nothing similar to league rules), and each place had their own nuances. In a larger city, most places were similar.

It never bothered me, as long as everyone was playing by the same rules and I knew them in advance. Years later after playing in a BCA league, I found that those standardized rules made the most sense and favored the better shooter. Still, if I'm going to a new environment on someone else's turf, I still ask about the rules, etc.

I think the point regarding ignorance is valid. Also the point about a larger percentage of players being lower-level players. And yes, in some areas there seems to be an unspoken rule that you should try and shoot at everything and only play offense. You can do this and still play safes if you think about it. Just be sure you're drinking with everybody when you purposely miss to get safe.

Still, if you don't take it too seriously and play cheap or for beers, etc., it can be fun. When you encounter weird, silly rules, though, either walk or don't set your expectations too high.

 

[Island Drive]

I played a prison guard here about 6 years ago.
He played by his own rules period.
BIH was not in his wheelhouse.
He couldn't run 3 balls, and if he didn't have a shot, he'd just roll the cue ball somewhere.
I never met a man that acted/played like this.
He was trying to become my friend.... he had ZERO respect for a pool table or any rules.

 

[JessEm]

Bar rules favor weaker players because if/when the stronger player gets BIH, it's still gotta be behind the HS.

Unless their balls happen to be in the kitchen as previously mentioned. Then you can screw with them by scratching on purpose.

But for the most part, it slows down stronger players.

 

[Sheldon]

Heard this one come up just last weekend. Player is on the 8 and had to kick at it, missed the ball completely, opponent said that's loss of game. 8 still on the table.
There's still a LOT of players around here that like to play "city league" rules, which means NO SAFES, have to try for a shot, kitchen for scratches. Recipe for arguments/fights.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Bar rules favor weaker players because if/when the stronger player gets BIH, it's still gotta be behind the HS.

Unless their balls happen to be in the kitchen as previously mentioned. Then you can screw with them by scratching on purpose.

But for the most part, it slows down stronger players.

Only if the strong player isn't smart enough to use the rules to his advantage.

When I first started to go to bars it was relatively common to play as described, but there were a decent number of 'vegas' rules players. I'd play what people wanted, but of punish them and explain why the horrible rules worked in my favor. They rarely choose to play me that way again.

I won a boat load of games with those rules, they still require the same skills, so why complain and try to make someone feel bad when they are out to have fun?

 

[tomatoshooter]

Yeah, the straight 8 rules are such a clearly flawed game. There are basically no penalties for crappy play and silly obstructions for skilled play. And the people who play that way think BIH is cheap. There's nothing cheaper that scratching when you opponent's ball is behind the headstring. And no safeties? I object to any rule that needs to assume the player's intention. About the only good thing is that, with ball in hand, a small mistake can be loss of game. That's a harsh penalty when you are playing a single game.

The bar I play at plays ball in hand and it's great. And if it's my table and the challenger isn't someone who's beaten me, I'm not going to try to lock them up the first time they get to the table.

 

[MattPoland]

I don’t live there anymore but I’m so proud of my hometown. The men’s league is quite pervasive. They force all casual players to play “league rules” (BIH). Enough so that all causal non-league bar players know league rules and expect their opponent to insist it even if it’s not their preference. I show up there and it’s a breath of fresh air. Small town.

 

[straightline]

Because they want an unbalanced game.
They can't play call shot.
They get upset when someone can pot more than 2 balls in a row..

This. Illogical waste of time bar rules rules facilitate can't making a ball and for advanced and veteran players, dummass licks ing...

 

[Cuedup]

I run nto these people all the time that wantto play me.

I just tell them I play by pro rules and if they don't want to play Iike that , I'm good. Have a good evening.

 

[hang-the-9]

Heard this one come up just last weekend. Player is on the 8 and had to kick at it, missed the ball completely, opponent said that's loss of game. 8 still on the table.
There's still a LOT of players around here that like to play "city league" rules, which means NO SAFES, have to try for a shot, kitchen for scratches. Recipe for arguments/fights.

I actually helped a group with this rule a few days ago by teaching them the correct way to play behind the line on fouls. The closest legal ball to the line gets spotted so the player can shoot at it normally from behind the line. Of course, 3 of the 4 people stared blankly at me like someone that ate eggs with the shells on for 10 years and then someone came up and showed them they peel off LOL "wait, you can do that???". Even the girl that was shooting at the 8 was confused that this was an actual thing.

No idea why anyone would think that scratching can ever be a good thing that has no determent to the player doing it. Even if it's a deliberate foul to say tie up a ball, the other player still would get ball in hand. With the silly bar rules, you foul and get rewarded.

 

[straightline]

I run nto these people all the time that wantto play me.

I just tell them I play by pro rules and if they don't want to play Iike that , I'm good. Have a good evening.

Ever get, "I play all over the states and these _are_ pro rules!" ???