Why Do So Many Bar Room Recreational 8-Ball Players Cling to the Nonsense Outdated Rules?

Miss making contact with 8-ball as loss of game is a brutal way to lose when your opponent still has 6-7 balls on the table as blockers.

Certainly makes you think twice about trying to run out early, unless you are confident you can complete the job.

Even non-intentionally one can still luck their way into putting you in a real bind, and intentionally they can really sew you up.

When I first retired and moved to where I'm at now, I frequented the local saloon with a couple of bar tables for a while. They had all the bar rules this thread is talking about. Call shot (all kisses, rail first on a table length bank, ...) versus call pocket.

Not long after I started playing there, I was down to the 8-ball and it was in the kitchen. Had to kick at it (my opponent had scratched on purpose!). I missed the 8 and he declared himself the winner and took control of the table. So, I put my marker up on the table and waited for my next turn at the table.

When I got up to play they asked me what the heck I was doing? The 8-ball was on the rail and two of my balls were close on both sides of it after the break. During my first 2 shots at the table I bunted 2 more of my balls in front of the 8-ball.

When my opponent went to shoot the 8-ball it was surrounded by 4 of my balls. I reminded him that he took the table from me for not hitting the 8-ball. He said that was not a rule here and that it was something he had heard about before in Canada (and all the regulars laughed).

I informed him that he had taken the table away from me in front of everyone using that rule. So, that rule was valid for the night (between us) and I was going to take the table back from him with the same rule. He tried a scoop jump shot (legal there) and jumped the cue off the table -- loss of game. Everyone laughed again.
 
Well. I am friends with a lot of those guys.
This is kind of it. That ain't the way we play here. If you want to play your league shit that's okay. But not here. We play real pool.
But it's the same rules the pro's use.
Are you a pro?
No, just saying.
Well..come back when you're a pro and you will still have to play real pool. Just saying.
 
Well. I am friends with a lot of those guys.
This is kind of it. That ain't the way we play here. If you want to play your league shit that's okay. But not here. We play real pool.
But it's the same rules the pro's use.
Are you a pro?
No, just saying.
Well..come back when you're a pro and you will still have to play real pool. Just saying.
I get that real pool shit a lot. It's a brain or genitals thing.
 
as long as the rules are known by all parties, it makes it fair,

problem is those that come to the different venue want to bring their rules with them and think everyone should abide by them.

and most of those rules that are hated here also help the better player if he is smart enough to use them properly.

the key word is smart.
It's not a question of fairness, it's that bar rules 8 ball is an obviously flawed game. There is basically no penalty for fouling, and you can gain a substantial advantage by scratching. Even in 1 pocket, scratching while knocking a hanger into your opponent's pocket doesn't gain you an advantage as much as it reduces the opponent's advantage, like fouling at the end of a basketball game.

No safeties? A rule that requires knowing the intent of a player is nearly always bad.

I remember waiting for a couple of guys to finish a game. It took half an hour. If you have too much pride to take ball in hand you have too much pride to miss that many shots.
 
It's not a question of fairness, it's that bar rules 8 ball is an obviously flawed game. There is basically no penalty for fouling, and you can gain a substantial advantage by scratching. Even in 1 pocket, scratching while knocking a hanger into your opponent's pocket doesn't gain you an advantage as much as it reduces the opponent's advantage, like fouling at the end of a basketball game.

No safeties? A rule that requires knowing the intent of a player is nearly always bad.

I remember waiting for a couple of guys to finish a game. It took half an hour. If you have too much pride to take ball in hand you have too much pride to miss that many shots.

No safety play was almost a guarantee around here in the seventies and eighties until you were playing guys that gambled for decent bucks. Three and five dollar games, I never considered a safety unless my opponent played one first. We got a lot of practice at two way shots back then, something I hate are any rules taking multi-way shots out of the game. Two way, occasionally three way shots were sometimes possible. Had to sell it was an accident pretty hard and apologize for hooking somebody. "Golly gee sorry, I sure didn't mean to do that!"

Few things got somebody in a fighting mood faster than playing a safety against them. Seemingly brought the manhood of everyone at the table in question if they tolerated safety play!

Hu
 
The only way they are unfair is if you get surprised by them, no? If both players know the rules isn't it fair by default?
Perhaps "unfair" is not the best word ... but certainly the "call everything" rule has been occasionally applied with bias in bar-rules games I've been in.

Dave
 
No safety play was almost a guarantee around here in the seventies and eighties…

Few things got somebody in a fighting mood faster than playing a safety against them…..

Hu
…..unless maybe, loosing a bet and then not having the money to pay! I once luckily dodged that situation (I’m ashamed to admit) many years ago, by playing an obvious safety that then broke up the game. Lost track of my $ (too many drinks), and when I realized my pockets were empty, and my opponent had me in a bind, my brazen disregard for the customary/local rules of conduct so disgusted him, he just unscrewed and quit me before the game was over (and I was able to then slip out before he had a chance to brood much about it).
 
I have a friend who likes to gamble , he isn't a big guy , but he has heart. One night he and another guy are playing 9 ball partners in a bar and their opponent makes the 8 ball and scratches. The nine should have spotted up but one of the opponents "a really big thuggish type guy ,says "no, in this bar ,you have to kick at it!. My friends partner asks my buddy what he should do, and my buddy says "I guess we are kicking!" lol
 
I have a friend who likes to gamble , he isn't a big guy , but he has heart. One night he and another guy are playing 9 ball partners in a bar and their opponent makes the 8 ball and scratches. The nine should have spotted up but one of the opponents "a really big thuggish type guy ,says "no, in this bar ,you have to kick at it!. My friends partner asks my buddy what he should do, and my buddy says "I guess we are kicking!" lol
The weirdest thing about this is that they're playing 9 ball with kitchen rules. :ROFLMAO: :LOL:
 
I have a friend who likes to gamble , he isn't a big guy , but he has heart. One night he and another guy are playing 9 ball partners in a bar and their opponent makes the 8 ball and scratches. The nine should have spotted up but one of the opponents "a really big thuggish type guy ,says "no, in this bar ,you have to kick at it!. My friends partner asks my buddy what he should do, and my buddy says "I guess we are kicking!" lol

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
 
I actually helped a group with this rule a few days ago by teaching them the correct way to play behind the line on fouls. The closest legal ball to the line gets spotted so the player can shoot at it normally from behind the line. Of course, 3 of the 4 people stared blankly at me like someone that ate eggs with the shells on for 10 years and then someone came up and showed them they peel off LOL "wait, you can do that???". Even the girl that was shooting at the 8 was confused that this was an actual thing.

No idea why anyone would think that scratching can ever be a good thing that has no determent to the player doing it. Even if it's a deliberate foul to say tie up a ball, the other player still would get ball in hand. With the silly bar rules, you foul and get rewarded.
Exactly! I gave up on playing the bars back in the 80s. There is no reasoning with them. Leave them be!
 
Just curious if this is just in our area (NC) or is it everywhere? Why are so many recreational bar room 8-ball players so ignorant as to the sensible 8-ball rules to play by?

Ball-in-hand behind the headstring on all scratches and when your only balls or 8-ball is behind the headstring you’re expected to kick down and back just to hit it - really? This is just one of the many screwed up ancient rules that makes absolutely no sense that still lives in many of not a majority of bars that have a few tables for customers to play on, generally while consuming alcohol.

How do you go about educating the regular players and changing the culture of rules to play by in a bar room, unless it’s the manager or owner who lays down the law? I’m guessing most of them are likely also ignorant of the rules or just don’t care.

It’s just amazing to me how these rules have managed to survive on such a widespread basis for half a century, when most of the players who adhere to them weren’t even born at the time the rules were changed?
key word recreational ... playing more for enjoyment than adherence to any rules
 
Well. I am friends with a lot of those guys.
This is kind of it. That ain't the way we play here. If you want to play your league shit that's okay. But not here. We play real pool.
But it's the same rules the pro's use.
Are you a pro?
No, just saying.
Well..come back when you're a pro and you will still have to play real pool. Just saying.
"Its how the pro's play" is one of my favorites. If you ask them to name a pro the only name they can come with is Willie Mosconi. You really have to be "in the know" to come up with that.
 
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