cue ball slide/stun

evergruven said:
I'm just curious about this phenomenon (or lack of one?)..
I can picture a ball having back spin and forward spin, I guess watching a ball slide isn't as visually stimulating
but in my pool journey, shooting a cb in its dead middle/with stun is ironically the last place I've thought to hit it
I'm sure it depends on cloth and stuff but how long can a cb slide for? distance-wise
anything else on the subject, I'm curious to learn about, physics, your experience, etc.
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It's a major feel thing. Try the Mighty X drill. Stun is basically a stop shot but while cutting. You can also get some real neat effects throwing the ball with english/side while stunning.

The faster you hit, the longer it is before spin/forward starts to take. So the longer the distance between CB and OB, you have to either hit it harder, elevate to jump (skipping CB to minimize cloth friction effects) or hit low. Maybe a combination of several factors.

Get a measle ball and watch a good player do kick shots, you will see the spin bleed off and turn into a dead ball when going from the last rail towards the OB. Watch their CB die off a rail after cutting an OB. This is similar to stun... Playing that inertia of the ball is how you get a stun shot.

You know how useful follow is? How useful draw is? Stun is pretty much just as useful IMO. It's even startlingly useful on new cloth.
 
evergruven said:
I appreciate your appreciation.
8ft.? 9ft.? I'm open-minded..in your own experience, how long can you get it to slide?
I'm about to hit a table myself, and see what I come up with
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I went down and hit some. I can tell you I can get the ball to slide down the tangent line, as far as how long it actually slides with zero spin, I have no idea 1sec? Even on video I can't tell.
 
jsp said:
I think it helps to clarify some terms, because it looks like you’re conflating hitting the CB ‘dead middle’ and ‘stun’, which aren’t necessarily the same things.

A ‘stun shot’ most commonly refers to the reaction of the CB after contact with the OB in which the CB follows the tangent line (the CB departs 90 degrees from the OB path), or the CB doesn’t move at all in the case of a straight-in stop shot. Stun occurs when the CB has no backward or forward roll at impact with the OB.

‘Hitting the CB with stun’ is hitting the CB such that it creates a stun shot, and exactly how the CB is hit can be different depending on distance, cloth, and shot speed. Hitting the CB ‘dead middle’ will result in a stun shot only if the CB is very close to the OB, or if the CB is hit with enough velocity, such that cloth friction doesn’t get a chance to cause significant forward roll on the CB at impact with the OB. But because of cloth friction, hitting the CB in the dead center will result in some forward roll at impact.

A pure stun shot is usually executed by hitting the CB some degree below center ball, depending cloth, distance, and speed.
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you're right- dead middle and stun don't entirely overlap, I should have been more clear. thanks for clarifying!

boogieman said:
Stun is pretty much just as useful IMO.
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it's counterintuitive to me, hence the thread- but it's obviously a useful concept/technique.

couldnthinkof01 said:
I went down and hit some. I can tell you I can get the ball to slide down the tangent line, as far as how long it actually slides with zero spin, I have no idea 1sec? Even on video I can't tell.
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right, so you're talking about the cb slide after contacting the ob? I meant on the way to the ob..sorry I didn't explain better
that said, how long the cb follows the tangent line is also an interesting question. but yea especially with a plain cb, it's hard to see..

thanks all for the replies!
 
evergruven said:
,,, how long the cb follows the tangent line is also an interesting question. but yea especially with a plain cb, it's hard to see..
...
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If the cue ball arrives at the object ball with no follow or draw, which is to say stun, it will go along the tangent line until it hits something. Was that what you were wondering about?
 
Bob Jewett said:
If the cue ball arrives at the object ball with no follow or draw, which is to say stun, it will go along the tangent line until it hits something. Was that what you were wondering about?
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hi bob, I was originally curious about how long the cb could slide for without contacting anything
what you say about the tangent line makes sense, I think I was thinking that it would slowly deviate over time/distance ?
at any rate, understanding stun in all its forms is a slog, but I'm getting there ^_^ thanks!
 
evergruven said:
I was originally curious about how long the cb could slide for without contacting anything
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Results will vary greatly, depending on several factors.
Cloth (fast/slow, clean/dirty)
Condition of the cue ball (clean or dirty, polished, unpolished).
How hard you hit the cue ball (obviously). :LOL:
It's one of those things you need to develop a feel for, and be able to adjust depending on conditions.
 
Sheldon said:
Results will vary greatly, depending on several factors.
Cloth (fast/slow, clean/dirty)
Condition of the cue ball (clean or dirty, polished, unpolished).
How hard you hit the cue ball (obviously). :LOL:
It's one of those things you need to develop a feel for, and be able to adjust depending on conditions.
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it's such a funny way of hitting the cb to me..slowly, I'm warming to it
ps I see sage's posts on fb all the time, probably because I like so many of them ^_^
 
As a post mentioned earlier, how long a ball will slide can depend on a few factors, but ball/cloth interaction is most important here as the friction between the surfaces will cause the ball to start rolling.

Dr. Dave has several shots with a striped ball to show how long the ball slides when attempting lower speed stop shots. Around 10:30 of the vid there is a nice view of this. The ball, hit with backspin, begins to slide once it wears off and the slide is brief before forward roll sets in... about the length of the side pocket width.

 
WobblyStroke said:
... The ball, hit with backspin, begins to slide once it wears off and the slide is brief before forward roll sets in... about the length of the side pocket width.

...
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The actual length of perfect slide -- zero spin -- is zero, just as a ball thrown up in the air is at its maximum height for zero length of time.

Similarly, in a cut shot played with follow, the cue ball follows the tangent line for zero length of time, but the tangent line is its initial direction off the object ball.
 
Bob Jewett said:
...in a cut shot played with follow, the cue ball follows the tangent line for zero length of time, but the tangent line is its initial direction off the object ball.
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Yes, it always starts curving forward the moment the CB and OB separate, but with more speed the curve is stretched out so it looks straighter at first. Another interesting fact is that the final direction is always the same angle from straight (for a given cut angle), just shifted more or less distance along the tangent line.

pj
chgo
 
Sheldon said:
It's a powerful tool once you get good at it. Especially on bar boxes where you will often need to get more precise position.
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I love stun shots on congested bar boxes. You know exactly where the cue ball is headed for break out shots or to miss a ball etc. I have come across so many players (league players) who say "I'm not good at stun shots", it amazes me, that's like saying that you cant shoot a stop shot. I always thought stop shots were one of the first things a new player learned. There is so much that can be done with stun shots off of rails when using a little side spin, especially on fast Diamonds. Now if I could only perfect that ball replacement shot...............................................
 
Bob Jewett said:
The actual length of perfect slide -- zero spin -- is zero, just as a ball thrown up in the air is at its maximum height for zero length of time.

Similarly, in a cut shot played with follow, the cue ball follows the tangent line for zero length of time, but the tangent line is its initial direction off the object ball.
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Let's call it 'effectively zero' then. As in that bit of slide that lasts maybe 4-6 inches, the CB will behave essentially the same way when contacting an OB.
 
Sheldon said:
It's a powerful tool once you get good at it.
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One of the most powerful differentiating shots between <650 players and the above, imo...

I've seen a few drills mentioned already. However if you're not the drill kind of guy. I suggest straight pool. Two things taking up that game did for me is combo IQ, and manipulating the CB short distances with stun, (slide).
 
fastone371 said:
Now if I could only perfect that ball replacement shot.
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I don't do many drills, but that's the one I've done the most! It really helps you develop a feel for when the cue ball is going to start changing directions.
 
Sheldon said:
I don't do many drills, but that's the one I've done the most! It really helps you develop a feel for when the cue ball is going to start changing directions.
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I love that shot. Practising it is a great way to develop feel for spin. Being able to move the ball just a few inches either side of a stop shot is a powerful weapon to have in some tight spots.
 
Stun is always fun. I love seeing that ball slide. It's fun when you put a shitload of draw/follow on the ball you see it slide then the draw/follow takes over and you see that magical swoop of the ball.
 
Zerksies said:
Stun is always fun. I love seeing that ball slide. It's fun when you put a shitload of draw/follow on the ball you see it slide then the draw/follow takes over and you see that magical swoop of the ball.
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One of those high speed swoops around a ball is just about my favorite thing to see on a pool table. Slam a reverse cut in, have the ball follow the tangent a bit to get below a ball obstructing a lower speed draw, and then spin catches and it arcs around to the other rail and spins back to me... pool perfection imo.
 
WobblyStroke said:
One of those high speed swoops around a ball is just about my favorite thing to see on a pool table. Slam a reverse cut in, have the ball follow the tangent a bit to get below a ball obstructing a lower speed draw, and then spin catches and it arcs around to the other rail and spins back to me... pool perfection imo.
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Probably one of the greatest draw shots ever

 
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