Cue Lift Technique … Is It Legal?

dr_dave said:
I have heard this from many other APA people also. It seems arbitrary to me since it is not clear in the written rules. It makes me wonder about other creative and illegal shots that would also be allowed in APA. Sounds like a good follow-up video. 🤔
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I have a bunch of shot ideas already, but do you guys know of other shots allowed in the APA that are illegal under WPA rules?

Thanks!
 
cueman said:
I am not sure that qualifies as a miscue.
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It is definitely “sliding contact” (as with a miscue, and unlike with a normal non-miscue shot, where the tip grabs the ball with no sliding).
 
dr_dave said:
I have a bunch of shot ideas already, but do you guys know of other shots allowed in the APA that are illegal under WPA rules?

Thanks!
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Do any APA players (or others) out there have any other questionable shots to recommend?
 
dr_dave said:
I look forward to seeing what response you get. I checked the APA rules online and didn't see anything one way or the other. Although, the following APA ball-in-hand foul could be interpreted in a way that would make the cue-lift or any intentional-miscue shot illegal:

"Altering the course of a moving cue ball, including a double-hit"a​
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attached is an official APA published list of unique rulings that allows this shot as legal in APA play:


Category Question Ruling
Legal Shot Is the "Tricky Close End Rail
Safety" a legal hit? (In this shot,
the cue ball and object ball are
close to each other and just off the
end rail at the center diamond. If
you try to stroke directly into the
object ball, you have a possibility
of fouling by double hitting the cue
ball since both balls are so close
together. Also you virtually have to
climb up on the table to reach this
shot or use a bridge. None of
these are good options. The way
to execute this shot is very simple:
Lay your cue stick on the table and
slide the tip under the edge of the
cue ball. Be sure the tip does not
contact the cue ball. Now grip the
cue stick about 3 inches from the
tip with your thumb and two
fingers. Pull the stick straight up
and the tip will contact the edge of
the cue ball driving it forward into
the object ball. There is no
possibility of a double hit on the
cue ball with this method. The
object ball will then rebound from
the rail and strike the cue ball
leaving virtually the same shot all
over again. This shot requires
very little practice.)

Yes, this is a legal hit.


There are several things listed in this document that may be used legally that would explode the heads of your opponents. If you are the type of person who will use obscure, ridiculous rules to "beat" your opponent. I have seen some of these used in playoffs and tournaments. It may be sleazy to do, but rules are rules, despite the spirit intended.
 

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chasrwest said:
attached is an official APA published list of unique rulings that allows this shot as legal in APA play:


Category Question Ruling
Legal Shot Is the "Tricky Close End Rail
Safety" a legal hit? (In this shot,
the cue ball and object ball are
close to each other and just off the
end rail at the center diamond. If
you try to stroke directly into the
object ball, you have a possibility
of fouling by double hitting the cue
ball since both balls are so close
together. Also you virtually have to
climb up on the table to reach this
shot or use a bridge. None of
these are good options. The way
to execute this shot is very simple:
Lay your cue stick on the table and
slide the tip under the edge of the
cue ball. Be sure the tip does not
contact the cue ball. Now grip the
cue stick about 3 inches from the
tip with your thumb and two
fingers. Pull the stick straight up
and the tip will contact the edge of
the cue ball driving it forward into
the object ball. There is no
possibility of a double hit on the
cue ball with this method. The
object ball will then rebound from
the rail and strike the cue ball
leaving virtually the same shot all
over again. This shot requires
very little practice.)

Yes, this is a legal hit.


There are several things listed in this document that may be used legally that would explode the heads of your opponents. If you are the type of person who will use obscure, ridiculous rules to "beat" your opponent. I have seen some of these used in playoffs and tournaments. It may be sleazy to do, but rules are rules, despite the spirit intended.
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Thanks for the info. Can you post a link to the page where you found this? Thanks!
 
chasrwest said:
I will look to find it again, I downloaded it a couple of years back, not sure where I got it.
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When I search on the text "cue ball leaving virtually the same shot" I am led to a page in the book "The Best Damn Pool Instruction Book, Period!" on Google Books. That book was written by Rob Schneider in 2004. He says it's legal. Here's the excerpt:

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Just another example of how a lack of standardization can make life very difficult (Betamax/VHS, Windows/iOS, Fahrenheit/centigrade, etc., etc.). Maybe the American league will decide in future to allow THEIR pitchers 5 balls instead of 4 before a walk, and the National league will start using 5 bases on THEIR home infields, and NASCAR will begin running all THEIR sanctioned track races clockwise……or, maybe UK citizens will be given permission to drive on the left when visiting the USA.….🤪 (couldn‘t be any loonier than billiards).
 
Interesting the various interpretations of this. I, like the author Bob quoted, also love this shot and nobody ever had an issue with it. I learned it when Karen Corr played it in a televised match maybe 20 years ago. Was fine for that tournament and I never really considered it might be seen as illegal.
 
WobblyStroke said:
Interesting the various interpretations of this. I, like the author Bob quoted, also love this shot and nobody ever had an issue with it. I learned it when Karen Corr played it in a televised match maybe 20 years ago. Was fine for that tournament and I never really considered it might be seen as illegal.
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It was legal in the past; but as Bob pointed out, it has not been legal since 1997!
 
rules that change according to the present times are really not rules but interpretations of what a rule should be.

ways to play that have stood the test of time shouldn't be changed unless very good reasons are for them to be changed.
 
It should be legal. A cue tip is hitting a cueball without a double hit.

Conceptually…no foul!
 
Just use the Massey side flick stroke.
And I think you can do this shot better and cleaner than demonstrated in the slow mo. Basically to where it's a good hit.
Any forward motion at all is still forward motion. The rule is bullshit it's just too difficult of a shot to judge so it's banned
 
RDeca said:
Just use the Massey side flick stroke.
And I think you can do this shot better and cleaner than demonstrated in the slow mo. Basically to where it's a good hit.
Any forward motion at all is still forward motion. The rule is bullshit it's just too difficult of a shot to judge so it's banned
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There are many legal ways to avoid a double hit in situations like these. All of them are demonstrated here:

 
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