L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Anyone know what's happening with Steinway Billiards in NY? Last I heard the whole block was bought up by some developer and Steinway needed to vacate at some point. Just wondering,,,
Last edited:
Steinway?
- Thread starter L.S. Dennis
- Start date
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Great post, your assessment makes absolute sense. I suspect that a vast majority of Americans have never even heard of the 9 ball US Open let alone any other major pool tournaments world wide. With the high cost of everything these days it's no wonder why anchor pool rooms like Hard Times in Bellflower Ca. and now Steinway in Ny. have closed. In one of Jay Hellfert's two wonderful books he describes in detail what it takes to make a pool room profitable. I doubt that many room owners have followed his advice.
Given the cost of commercial space these days, a standalone billiard room would be hard pressed to make enough, unless you own the building, they need other sources of income.
Welp, this is the result of the governor and politicians having a weird boner for not allowing pool rooms in New York state to not reopen even though they allowed restaurants and gyms to do so when it was deemed safe to. A lot of pool hall owners were ready to sue the state but then the governor at the time, Andrew Coumo, got scared and let them reopen. The problem is that the landlords wanted all the back rent due and how were they supposed to come up with that when the business is having people in the hall in the first place? Oh, and the current governor was never in a hurry to help halls out as she sees them as nothing but places where bad things happen.
I've talked to a few people in the area and noone knows what the owner is going to do next, whether it's reopen somewhere else or just close up shop and retire.
I've talked to a few people in the area and noone knows what the owner is going to do next, whether it's reopen somewhere else or just close up shop and retire.
Thank you Dr. Fedak for all your consideration, love, and support of the professional pool community!STEINWAY closed
My regrets to Manny and the wonderful staff who made it a welcoming action/tournament magnet for the past decade. Also to Ambi and Marisol who tried to carry on the tournament excitement that Tony Robles ignited back then. Finnegan ... you too
Your events are deeply appreciated by all.
Be well
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Considering that only about 2 dozen pool players are making more than I make at my day job, at least according to the AZB moneyboard, there's a question of whether pro pool actually exists. Yeas there are a few players that support themselves in tournaments, and I'm leaving out money games, but reasonably supporting oneself through tournament winnings is so rare it may as well not exist. It's really a shame that if a 14 year old kid was far and away better than anyone at a similar experience level, and he continues to improve, he still might not be able to support himself with professional play.
I don't know about New York, but odd things happen with commercial real estate in Los Angeles County- there are several commercial buildings that have been vacant for more than a decade. There must be perverse tax incentives for not renting out a space- otherwise the owners would have to come down in rental price, but they apparently don't for whatever reason.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Yeah, a decade is a long time to let a property lie fallow. I think sometimes landlords are cautious about dropping the price because they don't want to lock in a long lease when prices are low, but that's a year or two, not a decade. The market where I live is nowhere near as competitive as LA or NYC. I've still been surprised at how long some properties are underutilized.
The City seized the property through eminent domain for a $2 billion project over 5 square blocks. They initially fought it and actually thought they had won, as they were told at the end of last year that they could stay put, and they announced to everyone, "We're staying!". But that didn't happen and they were blindsided. It seems like they had very little notice to get out. The staff said they only knew one day ahead. I hope that at least they were able to get everything out of there.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
That's a shame, the problem is that square footage is just too damn expensive for pool to be profitable in cities like New York or San Francisco.
I wish them well, but it wouldn't surprise me if they just packed it in at this point. Again best hopes for for them!
According to this article
A Queens judge first ruled in December of last year that a warrant would be issued for the pool hall’s eviction as a result of about $440,000 owed by the business in back rent since March 2020, according to court documents. But an appeal process stalled the eviction for about six months following the court decision, until a judge last Tuesday declined a motion from the business asking the landlords to show cause.
Steinway Billiards Abruptly Closes After More Than Three Decades
Waitstaff said they’re scrambling to find new jobs after coming in on Wednesday to be told it would be their last day.
www.thecity.nyc
AFAIK, COVID lockdown has shuttered at least 4 pool halls (The Spot, New City, and Steinway). Paying back rent from COVID lockdown is still an obligation looming over the other remaining pool halls in NYC (Skyline, Gotham, Amsterdam, Society). This is something most NYC pool players are nog even aware.
Last edited:
it is new york city after all lol
Wow. So it looks like the landlord won the eminent domain seizure issue to keep the property, but the poolroom lost due to owed back rent. How could they possibly have paid back all that rent when they were forced by the City to close for so many months? This is a big mess and it's happening all over the City, now that businesses are required to pay the back rent.According to this article
A Queens judge first ruled in December of last year that a warrant would be issued for the pool hall’s eviction as a result of about $440,000 owed by the business in back rent since March 2020, according to court documents. But an appeal process stalled the eviction for about six months following the court decision, until a judge last Tuesday declined a motion from the business asking the landlords to show cause.
Steinway Billiards Abruptly Closes After More Than Three Decades
Waitstaff said they’re scrambling to find new jobs after coming in on Wednesday to be told it would be their last day.
AFAIK, COVID lockdown has shuttered at least 4 pool halls (The Spot, New City, and Steinway). Paying back rent from COVID lockdown is still an obligation looming over the other remaining pool halls in NYC (Skyline, Gotham, Amsterdam, Society). This is something most NYC pool players are even aware.
A relatively new room near me was not given any break on rent for most of two years. The two owners just walked away. The landlord now has the custom-designed tables and the two bars. He will give you the key to the room for $300,000. None of the fixtures, just the right to operate. It does come with a liquor license.
I hope that the two guys who owned the room were protected by an LLC so their personal wealth was not at stake.
Sounds like you need to form your own LLC, get a zero down loan from Silicon Valley Bank, and buy the room. Just tell the bank you will use the blockchain and AI and they won’t ask any questions.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
From what I understand, $300,000 is a good price for a liquor license. Because they are limited in some places, it basically becomes a bidding war, freezing out smaller operations and requiring any business that buys one to try to appeal to the largest number of people. Because people don't want to live in a neighborhood full of bars, paying for a liquor license means you need to be the type of bar no one wants to live next to.
How many tables are there? A good sized pool room probably has $300,000 tied up in their tables.
There are 16 tables. I would put a replacement cost at $120,000 and a value at auction of half of that or less. But the 300k does not get you the tables -- just the right to run the room and pay rent.