Testing Your Stroke

mr3cushion said:
There is No mystery to Top 3C players. There are 5 'basic strokes.' Plus, 'combinations of certain strokes.'

1. Normal follow-thru stroke.
2. Rapid stroke.
3. Short stroke.
4. Slow stroke.
5. Dead-ball stroke.
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Ahh.

Yes I have heard this. No doubt, These definitely produce different results, but dynamically they only can change 3 things… tip location, tip angle, and magnitude.

It is all and only where you hit the ball.

Remember the tip is only in contact for 2ms, not enough time for you to be able to to any more or less to the cue ball.

Think of it this way. There is no special stroke that can produce more spin. It ONLY depends on torque generated, which is only a function of distance from center ball and momentum. Those who claim they can flick their wrist to make more spin are just moving the tip further from center, not giving the ball magic powers.
 
nataddrho said:
Ahh.

Yes I have heard this. No doubt, These definitely produce different results, but dynamically they only can change 3 things… tip location, tip angle, and magnitude.

It is all and only where you hit the ball.

Remember the tip is only in contact for 2ms, not enough time for you to be able to to any more or less to the cue ball.

Think of it this way. There is no special stroke that can produce more spin. It ONLY depends on torque generated, which is only a function of distance from center ball and momentum. Those who claim they can flick their wrist to make more spin are just moving the tip further from center, not giving the ball magic powers.
Click to expand...
If claim to know and about some 3C fundamental elements and decide Not to embrace them, I don't know what to tell you. Except.

For some, No explanation will ever suffice! For others, no further explanation is needed.
 
mr3cushion said:
There is No mystery to Top 3C players. There are 5 'basic strokes.' Plus, 'combinations of certain strokes.'

1. Normal follow-thru stroke.
2. Rapid stroke.
3. Short stroke.
4. Slow stroke.
5. Dead-ball stroke.
Click to expand...
Question here. I have your book and admit the problems are with the student not the material. I guess I still don’t get the timing issues and actual execution of the stroke. I know you talked about experiencing the wrist releasing just before impact. I had some improvement trying to use the short stroke on thin hits in 3C. (I’m not good). Playing pool now and even after a lot of work on my stroke over the years, lessons, books etc... I feel like I have a lot of room for improvement. So in pool do you have suggestions to develop a straight well timed stroke ? Sounds obvious I guess, but what if anything do you think about on the actual stroke? How to avoid the unintentional jab or short stroke?
 
JPB2 said:
Question here. I have your book and admit the problems are with the student not the material. I guess I still don’t get the timing issues and actual execution of the stroke. I know you talked about experiencing the wrist releasing just before impact. I had some improvement trying to use the short stroke on thin hits in 3C. (I’m not good). Playing pool now and even after a lot of work on my stroke over the years, lessons, books etc... I feel like I have a lot of room for improvement. So in pool do you have suggestions to develop a straight well timed stroke ? Sounds obvious I guess, but what if anything do you think about on the actual stroke? How to avoid the unintentional jab or short stroke?
Click to expand...
It all starts with the 'Proper Full Hand' grip on the cue.

An excerpt from my Book/DVD's, the, 'The Foundation,' basic fundamentals.

The Bolded text from your post, (my book) determines what players have better strokes than others. I will admit, much of this is to do with a players, 'Natural hand eye' coordination. But, the Timing and Tempo can be taught.

I hope this helps.

The simple move​

The last element of a proper grip is the simplest. Most average players are looking for some magical move to make just before they strike the cue ball, well; I'm here to tell you, there isn't one. It's the simple opening of the hand on the cue when swinging the cue back, Photo13, and when the cue swings forward closing the hand around the cue with all fingers, Photo14. Also the middle knuckles on the cue hand, should be pointing to the floor. This along with the arm and the elbow in the correct position when addressing the cue ball will give the player a more consistent effect on the cue ball.
 

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I'm not picking sides, but I didn't see any difference between Bill's and Lou's attempt. Both to me look like they were digging into the ball. Lou looked like his was hit a bit harder (or maybe it is the Diamond's quicker rails), and hit the 2nd object ball. Bill's looked like it was hit thicker and went to the outside facing of the pocket, and that's why it almost scratched. But both strokes looked about the same to me. I'll try this shot tomorrow on my GC. Both of you guys could probably give me the 6 playing 9 ball. If I make the shot, I guess it's not a big deal?
 
iusedtoberich said:
I'm not picking sides, but I didn't see any difference between Bill's and Lou's attempt. Both to me look like they were digging into the ball. Lou looked like his was hit a bit harder (or maybe it is the Diamond's quicker rails), and hit the 2nd object ball. Bill's looked like it was hit thicker and went to the outside facing of the pocket, and that's why it almost scratched. But both strokes looked about the same to me. I'll try this shot tomorrow on my GC. Both of you guys could probably give me the 6 playing 9 ball. If I make the shot, I guess it's not a big deal?
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I never thought Rembrandt and Picaso's work were similar/ LOL!
 
I couldn't resist and got out of bed to try the shot. Ha ha. I must have tried it about 20 times before I got it "close". I kept hitting it too fat and not close to pocketing the ball. Then when I finally got the aim right, the CB was on a perfect line to get position, but about 10" short on distance. I just couldn't get the speed right. Finally, everything came together and I got the hit and the speed right, and got good position 3 or 4 times (out of maybe 15 minutes of attempts). I did record about half the successful attempts, I'll see if I can post them soon.
 
mr3cushion said:
It all starts with the 'Proper Full Hand' grip on the cue.

An excerpt from my Book/DVD's, the, 'The Foundation,' basic fundamentals.

The Bolded text from your post, (my book) determines what players have better strokes than others. I will admit, much of this is to do with a players, 'Natural hand eye' coordination. But, the Timing and Tempo can be taught.

I hope this helps.

The simple move​

The last element of a proper grip is the simplest. Most average players are looking for some magical move to make just before they strike the cue ball, well; I'm here to tell you, there isn't one. It's the simple opening of the hand on the cue when swinging the cue back, Photo13, and when the cue swings forward closing the hand around the cue with all fingers, Photo14. Also the middle knuckles on the cue hand, should be pointing to the floor. This along with the arm and the elbow in the correct position when addressing the cue ball will give the player a more consistent effect on the cue ball.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
Lets not forget the title of this thread. "Testing Your Stroke." Two viewers tried it and publicly posted those vids results.

That was the Entire idea of this thread! Get viewers to think a little out of their comfort zone.

Remember, If a player doesn't have this style of shot in his arsenal He gives his opponent another inning at the table.

Now, if you are considered the, 'Mover' in the game and your opponent is a, 'Shooter' with 1 ball on the table, You have the worst of it from there.
 
I agree with Lou on almost all of this. In particular, the shot needs a little downward angle, if only to ensure you are hitting the cue ball at the right spot. But, I do think you can hit it at a speed where the cue ball doesn't jump after hitting the 1.

IMO, the shot is really an exercise in knowledge, correct aim and execution. And I think it does "test" your stroke straightness when shooting off the rail.

Separately, I think Dr. Dave disproved that follow-through impacts deflection.

And I also agree with Lou that it's not really a hard/difficult shot. I would say maybe 4 or 5 out of 10 if you have good mechanics.

-td
 
td873 said:
I agree with Lou on almost all of this. In particular, the shot needs a little downward angle, if only to ensure you are hitting the cue ball at the right spot. But, I do think you can hit it at a speed where the cue ball doesn't jump after hitting the 1.

IMO, the shot is really an exercise in knowledge, correct aim and execution. And I think it does "test" your stroke straightness when shooting off the rail.

Separately, I think Dr. Dave disproved that follow-through impacts deflection.

And I also agree with Lou that it's not really a hard/difficult shot. I would say maybe 4 or 5 out of 10 if you have good mechanics.

-td
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It would be nice for You to join with us that have posted a video of your attempts.

We could learn fromYour technique.
 
mr3cushion said:
Anyone that 'Knows' they have the knowledge, ability and Huevos to do so.

More importantly, "A player that is More concerned about Winning instead of worrying about Losing."
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I believe your quote is correct and important. I don't think I'm going to be playing against many opponents that are firing at that with consistency.
 
mr3cushion said:
It would be nice for You to join with us that have posted a video of your attempts.

We could learn fromYour technique.
Click to expand...
This is a typical response from you in this thread. Anyone who has an opinion is met with "show us." But, as you know, Lou shot it first try recording from a trash can. It's really not hard.

In any event, I already posted my video attempts, just not here. I will humor you and link it below. I do note that you only posted a video of you successfully executing the shot one time. But, here's my video shooting it almost 20, including 5 uncut attempts in a row illustrating that the shot isn't really hard. Perhaps you have a video of shooting it multiple times so we can evaluate your technique.

-td



 
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