I had read that the WPA standard was 5 percent of the player plot, which was deducted from the player’s winnings and not paid by the promoter.
MatchRoom's response to the WPA player sanctions:
- Thread starter The_JV
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I had read that the WPA standard was 5 percent of the player plot, which was deducted from the player’s winnings and not paid by the promoter.
I'm sure you're right about the 5percent but that is for the promoter I believe.
There is something about players paying a portion of their prize winnings to the WPA though, and I don't know what that is.
I think it's important to view what the deal really is and why folks are upset about it.
5 percent might be too much considering the number of tournaments there are. If there is added money to the event and that added is 100k that is 5k dollars the WPA would be due. That is not chump change.
But if the only thing the player is on for is a $20 licensing fee that doesn't seem like much of deal for the player, but I totally get that Matchroom has developed 9 ball into what it is without any WPA help and why they would want to be able to administrate it.
The WPA isn't going to keep up with any of that just the final titles. $20 for a player, no big deal but beyond that, big deal.
Players complain on Facebook that if they win $10k, the WPA 5 percent comes off the top before any money is paid and taxes are withheld. The promoters pass the cost on to the players.
But I agree the WPA has no money. From the WADA stuff with Thorpe, they said almost all their budget goes to drug testing. It’s not like there is some windfall.
If the WPA is a non profit how come they don't raise money through means outside of player prize money.
Why doesn't the WPA have an annual fundraiser or try to raise funds?
Colleges have alumni groups to help raise funds, even Charlie Williams has World Sports Alumni.
The next WPA event should have a place for fans to register and sign up for promotions and merchandise.
The WPA is like pool's PBS. Can we save pool for $5 a month?
The WPA can host the first ladyboy pool exhibition to see how things go, it will be all fundraising and a show from the ladyboys.
Why doesn't the WPA have an annual fundraiser or try to raise funds?
Colleges have alumni groups to help raise funds, even Charlie Williams has World Sports Alumni.
The next WPA event should have a place for fans to register and sign up for promotions and merchandise.
The WPA is like pool's PBS. Can we save pool for $5 a month?
The WPA can host the first ladyboy pool exhibition to see how things go, it will be all fundraising and a show from the ladyboys.
Players are the worlds best accountants. According to them no one else exists but them, but you already know that.
Pool is only so popular. The reasons for it are a mile long. Corporations won't be interested unless the views are there and then they want to know how much money the demographic has that they are advertising to.
I don't blame Matchroom for wanting the fee people out of their business.
Of course, the WPA is doing for Pool a lot in terms of what they do, but it would seem that a for profit organization that was funding the non-profit WPA is volunteering to cut out the middleman and be him. Not sure how that's going to work, but I guess I don't need to know. That would be someone else's concern.
There is a lot more to this issue than players complaining about payouts, when will that ever end? Not in our life times when travel and room for an event runs you 3500 from the states to most events. If Europe doesn't have most of the pool now, they soon will. Which brings me to where could this banning players go? Would this mean players playing Matchroom events couldn't play Predator events? That would be a disaster for Predator if the players won't play for them and then Matchroom comes to the US! Now that would be interesting. I say and predict it so this day September 10, 2023. Matchroom takes over the world!
If most of the WPA funding goes to drug testing, why do it? Pool is not going to be in the Olympics so stop treating it like an Olympic sport. Put that money to better use. And also stop using money for elaborate travel expenses when Zoom calls will do the job just fine.
Take for instance the Mario He incident...
He was banned from the Mosconi Cup for taking Beta blockers. Which by the way was a blood pressure medication prescribed by his doctor. Yes, i believe that Matchroom was enforcing WPA rules, but the WPA should have stepped in on Mario's behalf. A player shouldn't have to choose between his health and playing the game. It's ridiculous.
Agreed 100 percent. The counter argument from the WPA is there are no fancy banquets and funding from Qatar or Belarus if you don’t have a IOC backing for your sport.
The players are not piggy banks.
Its the responsibility of the WPA to secure their own funding to be sustainable.
The easiest way to raise funds is taxing. However better ways might exist if the WPA opens their ivory tower.
This is funny to me, so the WPA would go the way of the PGA and gladly, so it sounds like.
They are being squeezed because they are running out of room.
If I were them, I'd develop a plan to commercialize the sport and insert themselves as the go between, so that
promoters "who were acting right" would only have to apply for funding. Problem solved!
Is the drug testing necessary for IOC recognition? Or just a step to get into the Olympics? I think anything that threatens IOC recognition (or whatever it’s called) would threaten the government support that is provided to some federations. But if it doesn’t, then I agree.
Pull back on the drug testing and focus the money on things that will actually grow the game. Heck, hire someone to focus their time on marketing. Not someone who will spend all their time thinking about marketing, but someone who will actually execute. They need to also recognize that being more transparent and trumpeting their accomplishments is a key part of enticing more support. This whole line about “we don’t talk about doing things, we do it” is utter nonsense.
I'd love to have that job. I know I could do it. I would have taken plans to corporations on my own that would work even with the advertising metrics, but I've never produced a streamed event before, Funny thing about that, "Who has outside of Predator and Matchroom?" This is why Matchroom has no problem letting players play any event they want to. They have virtually no competition in the world that anyone would pay any attention to. Barry Hearn said he would be glad to work with anyone whose goal was to eliminate player entry fees, but who has an idea to make that happen? No one who has also produced a pool event. How about someone who has a great idea on how it can be done and knows how to get production on the low? I've already worked on that and moved on from it, because I stand no chance of being taken seriously.
In a basic sense, all it would be is the Event Business and hiring of Production at a rate that makes it work. Of course the event series has to be planned to work for advertisers, now that is where the magic comes in.
There are a few more details for sure, but I've looked at and it's doable as long as you have the credentials you need.
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Those are good questions and I’ve never seen an answer. I think most Olympic sports are required to do the WADA stuff, but many (snowboarding, skateboarding) only test during Olympic competition as none of their athletes would pass the rest of the time.
As with the ban on Russian players, the WPA has struggled to interpret the rules that govern sports. But again it’s not some big organization with experts on anything. It’s a few dudes and an occasional lady who volunteer their time and vote on these things once a quarter.
It also appears a little dodgy, that a bunch of guys got together in Johannesburg, South Africa and filed a non-profit with the idea of controlling an entire sport. The drug testing stuff can be done by anyone with ethics and 9-ball has become a large and complicated business dominated by one sole proprietor whose done nothing but look out for the player's interest.
Would it have been so bad to contract with Matchroom to run the 9-ball division that they built from the ground up? Yes, this relinquishes power, but if they had there wouldn't be this problem and perhaps their role would have changed and morphed into something better and more important like sponsor acquisition. The standoff isn't going to fix anything in my opinion, but some players may not get the titles they deserve.
Thats why Matchroom is successful. Emily Frazier is very good at it, like her or not.
If pool is ever played in the Olympics, then fine, test them. But until then, I see it as a waste of money.
As a lague operator, I had to deal with Marijuana use in our local league. We had some complaints from club members about players going outside and walking back in smelling like a skunk. I delt with it. Told them I don't care what they do on their own time, but we are guests in the venues we play in. Respect their wishes.
If the ACBS can gain entry by changing names despite numerous violations, then why cant the WCBS or WPA restructure under a new name?
The purpose would be to include more stakeholders in the non profit.
Why would the IOC say no?
The purpose would be to include more stakeholders in the non profit.
Why would the IOC say no?
I’m showing my naivity here… how do the major sports like basketball and ice hockey do the Olympics? I recall until the 1990’s, basketball in the Olympics disallowed any professionals. Then they changed the rules and had Michael Jordan and the “Dream Team”.
Is there a whole separate system for basketball and hockey to pick the Olympic players compared to what we see in the NBA and NHL? If so, is this system international?And did that system change for basketball in the 1990’s?
Can any of this be applied to pool?
Is there a whole separate system for basketball and hockey to pick the Olympic players compared to what we see in the NBA and NHL? If so, is this system international?And did that system change for basketball in the 1990’s?
Can any of this be applied to pool?
YEs, the rules changes. The USOC used to mandate that athletes had amateur status, if I recall. Think the Miracle on ice, where we fielded a team of college kids. Now, Basketball, baseball, tennis, volleyball, and most everything else is made up of professionals.
I assume it's a simple power equation.
Any successful professional organization should be self-sufficient through it's own accomplishments of growth, marketing, ticket sales, broadcast deals, sponsorships, merchandising, etc. It should not need engagement with any IOC-recognized governing body because it is already self-sufficient. So they hold all of the power. They likely don't care if their sport is in the Olympics because they don't get much direct value from that. They don't need international government funding for trainings, events, and athlete support. At best, they tolerate their athletes participating in the Olympics if the IOC governing body also tolerates the professional players (who do not regularly participate in their structure) jumping in to represent at the Olympics. I think that's just a matter of whether the governing body wants to showcase the best talent possible in their sport or whether they want to reward the (amateur) athletes that participate actively in their structure. I assume this is usually the case when the professional league existed and was already successful before the IOC governing body was created.
I think those scenarios are pretty straightforward. The interesting scenarios are where the IOC-governing body starts off with more power and slowly or dramatically the tides turn the other way. The outcome is the same but the transition has got to be intriguing. The governing body goes from being recognized as the professional and amateur authority to only being an amateur organization. That is, unless the professional organization fails to achieve self-sufficiency. If so, hopefully that's an organic failure to launch on its own merits (IPT) versus a failure to launch because its battles with the governing body toppled it over with crippling sanctions before it could achieve success.
I don't have good specifics. I'm mostly talking off the top of my head. But I'm sure there's parallels between NBA, NFL, and NHL to my first paragraph versus Snooker, Darts, and some other sports for my second paragraph.