How do these diamond tables play so badly? vid
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Being a seasoned, all around player, better prepares you for any tournaments you might choose to play in. There is no such thing as the tables screwed you, that is called losing to the table, of which you should, as a seasoned player, be able to overcome, otherwise how could ANYONE WIN the tournaments? The better players ALWAYS prevail buddy!Sage level comments Glenn... Who knew you had it in ya
You are right. I'm not a road warrior, and have never attempted to hustle anyone as well. I'm just a guy that enjoys playing the game and typically doesn't shy away from a challenge. While I have never played on cloth so worn it's transparent, I have played on tables in such disrepair that cushions have to be adjusted prior to shooting. In fact I find such conditions in my local room done shortly after the tables have been re-clothed. Hence why I did all my own work.
Frankly, I simply don't play on crap equipment. I have that option and don't hesitate to do so. However when you pay for tournament and you get screwed by conditions, it sucks. Much like the very recent "Canadian Open" 8 ball that just went off. Last year they re-clothed all the tourney tables prior to the event. This year we got to enjoy the same cloth that was installed for that prior event. Table conditions were outright terrible. ...and I only drove an hour. Can't imagine how pissed those from the coasts felt about what they traveled to play on. I will not be registering for that event again until I know the conditions I will be subjecting myself to.
There was a very recent thread about what players should be paying attention to when in a match, so I won't rehash that here. You do make very valid points though, I agree to a point.
I completely agree... The smarter and best all around players make the right adjustments to overcome conditions. Exactly why I opt to avoid playing banks.
There's no time to learn how each table's cushions play, so you're always better off to avoid having their specific characteristics help determine the winner. I knew we'd agree on this.There's the 'best' pool that can be played based on subpar conditions, and then there's the 'best' pool they can be played. I'm fully willing to admit that my game is tuned to better conditions, and it takes me time to adjust to subpar tables. The fault there is totally on me. That said, I don't think I'm out of line to believe that what should be the biggest national event of the calendar in my country, should be played on quality equipment. Could you imagine those playing the USopen next week were forced to deal with a mix of red/blue label diamonds w/ random beers stains...?
I do agree that if tables are being supplied for an event, then all those tables should be the same, AND in tournament condition, but still having to adapt to the environment they're being placed in, is still the responsibility of the players.I completely agree... The smarter and best all around players make the right adjustments to overcome conditions. Exactly why I opt to avoid playing banks.
There's the 'best' pool that can be played based on subpar conditions, and then there's the 'best' pool they can be played. I'm fully willing to admit that my game is tuned to better conditions, and it takes me time to adjust to subpar tables. The fault there is totally on me. That said, I don't think I'm out of line to believe that what should be the biggest national event of the calendar in my country, should be played on quality equipment. Could you imagine those playing the USopen next week were forced to deal with a mix of red/blue label diamonds w/ random beers stains...?
The catch is that the experience with the tables is rarely equal. For example, An up and coming regional player is scheduled to play Efren in the semi-finals of an event in an arena. Naturally with the interest in Efren he has played multiple matches on the TV table before this one, it is the regional player's first match on the TV table. Hot lights for video, maybe other issues, Efren is not only tuned to TV tables, he is tuned to this TV table. Not that he often needs one but he has a substantial edge.
I completely agree... The smarter and best all around players make the right adjustments to overcome conditions. Exactly why I opt to avoid playing banks.
There's the 'best' pool that can be played based on subpar conditions, and then there's the 'best' pool they can be played. I'm fully willing to admit that my game is tuned to better conditions, and it takes me time to adjust to subpar tables. The fault there is totally on me. That said, I don't think I'm out of line to believe that what should be the biggest national event of the calendar in my country, should be played on quality equipment. Could you imagine those playing the USopen next week were forced to deal with a mix of red/blue label diamonds w/ random beers stains...?
I just hope those ARE beer stains!
We play on all kinds of tables traveling but generally they are in a certain range. The really bad tables or the ones with a strange quirk or two are what got me a couple times. Combine them with a local hero that knew every thread of the table and any road player could find themselves in trouble.
Lately, now that the place is long gone, I admit my homefield advantages on the tables I was usually counted on to show up at. Very strong side lighting made the balls seem a gnat's ass over from where they were really at. Most shots on a bar table it didn't matter but the very shots that set the road player apart from the local guy were the ones that would bite the road player in the butt on these tables. Add that to every bit of the air in the place changed out in a few seconds if the front and back door got opened at once and it could get interesting.
A much more recent place, now gone, had a table that the AC system just blew on one side of. One side banked typical blue label, the cushions on the other side were like rock!
The road players of yesteryear had to be able to adapt to almost anything and sometimes something weird still bit them. Today's US players, including me, are hothouse players. We expect quality climate control and tables in good shape anywhere we go and mostly that is what we get. I have played the locals on ratty tables fairly lately but I don't do any real gambling on these tables, too easy to find better tables!
I don't know where the Legends events were held but I do remember the storm on bare metal walls being so loud it was hard to commentate at least one year. I am sure the conditions changed a bunch in minutes. Those are the kind of things that everyone should be able to deal with, they affect everyone equally.
Hu
It's been about 10 days since the event but you still just made me wash my hands...lol
^^^This completely.
Screwy equipment adds more luck, giving lesser players a bit more chance. Yes you can try to adapt but you can only control so much. Diamond tables are great, usually lol, because good conditions allow consistent play and control.
Let's make concrete greens in golf and see if the top guys still win the most
luck is indiscriminate
They will
Exactly why it levels the playing field
but it could be luck for you, making it far more uneven
Couple extreme examples to explain the math with luck, bad luck and control.
Imagine I'm playing a race to 3 vs SVB in 9 ball. Typically I only win this 1 out of 100 races (made up stat here).
But now I change my strategy and break from center of the table, trying to make the 9 on the break by having the back ball hit it. This is luck because I'm just smashing and hoping, but now I have a 2 out of 100 chance to win. Not counting the 9 on the break removes this luck and this rule change would favor the better player.
Next time you play you're on a unknown table which happens to have dead spots on the rail that neither player knows about. SVB was unlucky and hit a couple of these spots and hooked himself on the 8 ball. I have a slightly better chance of winning because there's more randomness and less control offered to the players. The great players are always going to play better on ideal conditions. The lesser players might not even realize they are on good vs bad conditions.
Great players are managing these percentages and they know what can go wrong. Being a little bit off in pool or making one bad decision means you can lose to anyone. We're all fighting the conditions. I do generally adapt ok to variety of conditions (I usually test the table before a match) but when the table is very out of normal, I'm suddenly playing a game which is difficult to maintain confidence and becomes very defensive.
Imagine I'm playing a race to 3 vs SVB in 9 ball. Typically I only win this 1 out of 100 races (made up stat here).
But now I change my strategy and break from center of the table, trying to make the 9 on the break by having the back ball hit it. This is luck because I'm just smashing and hoping, but now I have a 2 out of 100 chance to win. Not counting the 9 on the break removes this luck and this rule change would favor the better player.
Next time you play you're on a unknown table which happens to have dead spots on the rail that neither player knows about. SVB was unlucky and hit a couple of these spots and hooked himself on the 8 ball. I have a slightly better chance of winning because there's more randomness and less control offered to the players. The great players are always going to play better on ideal conditions. The lesser players might not even realize they are on good vs bad conditions.
Great players are managing these percentages and they know what can go wrong. Being a little bit off in pool or making one bad decision means you can lose to anyone. We're all fighting the conditions. I do generally adapt ok to variety of conditions (I usually test the table before a match) but when the table is very out of normal, I'm suddenly playing a game which is difficult to maintain confidence and becomes very defensive.
Great players often rely on extreme precision on critical shots to separate themselves from the hoi polloi. I stand very little chance as a high 500s Fargorate against SVB playing a single bar table 8 ball match, even though I have a few matches playing alternate breaks 8 ball where I broke and ran my first 4 games. Because Shane's break and precision 1. Allows him many more open tables, with fewer balls to shoot, and 2. When he DOES get clusters, they are fewer and far between, and precision allows him to break out these clusters and still run out.
When the equipment is very, very bad, it shaves a good bit of these specific advantages away. Dog slow cloth means he is gonna make fewer balls, and have more clusters. Will he still win? Extremely likely. Will it be anywhere as easy for him? Absolutely not. He will have to expend a lot more mental energy, and he will have to play slower games while dealing with unnecessary layout problems caused by poor equipment.
The payoff has to be worth it for good players to intentionally subject themselves to bad equipment. The road players of old had this payoff, as playing marks on their pet table is the only way you are gonna win big money. Shane however, is not gonna willingly subject himself to poor equipment at a tournament where he is playing against worldkillers, as the percentage of his advantage is trimmed down with bad equipment.
the equipment was not horrible at this tournament to change the tide that drastically lets be honest
and no one in the texas state thing was near svb level or will ever be ok
lets bring it down a bit we are all amatuers
why worry about things you have no control over like luck and table conditions, the other guy certainly isnt
There's a new game called on azbilliards, you get a point every time you spot a logical fallacy
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/common-logical-fallacies
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/common-logical-fallacies
You've made 7 comments since your last comment. Seems like you're still frustrated.
Seems like it but no
maybe you can add something of value to this thread?
I am adding value. I'm the one keeping a tally of the posts. I don't see anyone else volunteering to do that.Seems like it but no
i was thinking the same and you beat me to it
as you said before what answer will satisfy him when even the guy that helped design and install so many isnt good enough for his expertise lol
Right because the fact that I've posted after saying it was my last post, totally invalidates them all LOL