But under APA rules, since the player was not trying to gain any advantage, and did not move the cue ball, the action was not a foul.
The guy moved TWO BALLS. If player 1 can't put two balls back, then I guess he wasn't paying attention to the game in front of him, either. I'm not sure what your point was with the last couple of sentences here. Call them mistakes or accidents, what's the point you're trying to make? Should the OTM distinguish between "accidentally moved balls" and "mistakenly moved balls"? I don't think they would be treated any differently though, so what would that accomplish?
I think saying "You had a brain fart but the cue ball wasn't involved and we can reset everything so neither of us is harmed in any way, so lets do that" is actually a pretty adult way to handle the situation. APA logic treats the players as adults, capable of such reasoning. But that's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
Tell me why, and if you could change things, how would you like it to be ruled? League Operators can suggest rule changes. There's a whole process, as there should be, but changes usually start at the LO level, and LO's get most of their ideas from players.
Considering the target of the APA is the amateur player, with focus on fun competition, following the spirit of other sections of the OTM addressing specific scenarios, it is reasonable to replace the moved balls by the opponent and have the player who mistakenly moved them shoot.
I think if the player deliberately moves balls it should be a foul. He was mistaken, I get that. Mistakes happen all the time. There is no way in my mind that it makes sense to have multiple balls replaced as close as they were by a guy about to get BIH. I firmly believe the "accidentally moved balls" rule should only be applied to balls that are moved accidentally during the course of the game.
I disagree. I'd bet if you surveyed all of the players around my area, the consensus would be the player "accidentally" forfeited the game.
That enlighten me.
I have intentionally avoided Any Pocket Asshole.
Unquestionably loss of game for player 2 for his error for not paying attention.
In every other pool league or tournament you're correct.
Understood, and not unreasonable. It could have a small impact on skill level, and we try to keep things not related to skill or luck out of the calculation, but that's not what would keep APA from changing stance. What would keep them from changing is all the other times the players would have to make a determination of accidental or deliberate. This one's easy, others maybe not so much so. Did I accidentally move that ball out of the way during my shot, or was it deliberate in the hopes of an advantageous replacement by my opponent? Or maybe I deliberately moved a ball to make space for another ball to roll through during the shot. I know my opponent moved a ball by accident but I'm going to argue deliberate in the hopes of getting the BIH? People will do that, some in this forum. To get BIH, a determination would have to be made immediately, and that can and will cause arguments and fights. A loss of game determination could be made at a later time to avoid the arguments, but what do you do if changing the result of that game results in an incomplete match? Get the players back together to finish the match? I'm not so sure that's a good idea, either. It's unfortunate that a few with a win-at-any-cost mentality have to make things difficult, but that's the reality of the situation. By the way, you could settle the whole thing by calling all-ball fouls. APA would never go for that (side note - I know people who have been called for hair fouls and boob fouls under those rules, so the unscrupulous types still win).
Many rooms where APA is played won't have an LO present. (They usually have many places in their territory, can't be everywhere) Who is gonna be the adjudicator when there is a conflict? This crap comes up all the time with petty stuff. Creating more rules that might require an authority figure is counter productive. I think many of the rules in APA are trying to find a baseline where play is fair, and won't require someone "in charge" to be present to adjudicate things. Deciding accidental or not falls into that category.
Here's a possibility. The two team captains look at the known facts of the situation and see if they can come to a decision. If they are split, they try to find a compromise, like loss of turn but no ball in hand. If they can't find a compromise, they flip a coin between the two alternatives and send a description to APA Central. Maybe something happens to one of the captains, like he gets a "Rules Guru" patch.
In APA, if I'm shooing a shot, and I don't really like how my balls are lying, can I rake a big cluster on my follow through? What is the penalty? If a player can pick up balls with their hand and there's no penalty, is there likewise no penalty for moving balls with your stick during your shot?