What would you do? (9-ball)

Oikawa

Oikawa

Well-known member
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9-ball, CB frozen to the cushion.

I had this exact layout and ended up going for the rail-first pot to play position for the 9 ball. Was left wondering if it was really the right shot.

I couldn't see any high percentage safeties, and all normal pots were out of the question. No realistic angle to get to the 9 with normal means, masse to manipulate the angle is way too risky.

Would you go for the rail first, and if so, what power would you use to maximize your odds of not leaving an easy pot if you miss?

Do you see something that I don't?
 
When the safety is super tough, going offence is best so I like your rail first....that is what I saw first as well and would probably go with at the table, faced with the spot for the first time.

As far as speed goes, I think you might as well play pure offence and try to get down ideally for the 9. The issue for trying a 2 way(ish) shot is that a lower speed that will bring an undercut 8b back to about where it is also just sells out to the top left corner if over cut. So unless you have a tendency to miss rail first shots in a certain way, I don't think you can worry about the leave too much and just have to fire away with the speed you think gets you good on the 9.
 
Oikawa said:
View attachment 730853

9-ball, CB frozen to the cushion.

I had this exact layout and ended up going for the rail-first pot to play position for the 9 ball. Was left wondering if it was really the right shot.

I couldn't see any high percentage safeties, and all normal pots were out of the question. No realistic angle to get to the 9 with normal means, masse to manipulate the angle is way too risky.

Would you go for the rail first, and if so, what power would you use to maximize your odds of not leaving an easy pot if you miss?

Do you see something that I don't?
Click to expand...

I'd cue whitey at 9 o'clock.
Clip the left side of the 8/banking the 8 to the long rail below the side pocket. Cue ball long rail/long rail to head of the table short.
It's a speed control shot with a rolling cue ball 3 rails.
KIS
 
skiergd011013 said:
I think the highest percentage is to roll the 8 in and bank at the 9
Click to expand...
I guess it might be if you are good at long banks. For me, I'd say the rail first one-railer is 30-40% to pot and get shape (would be higher % to just pot 8, but need to shoot it harder than usual, to get shape for the 9), and leaving a long bank + making it is maybe 15-20%.
 
WobblyStroke said:
I guess this will depend on the player, but I know that for me, a rail first 8b is higher percentage than a table length rail to rail bank.
Click to expand...
that it does. For rail first, id prefer the 8 to be closer to the pocket. Those shots are not easy. I'd hate to attempt it, only to hang it by the pocket and give the game away. For me, at least rolling the 8 in and going for the bank, i have a guaranteed chance at the $ ball
 
WobblyStroke said:
When the safety is super tough, going offence is best so I like your rail first....that is what I saw first as well and would probably go with at the table, faced with the spot for the first time.

As far as speed goes, I think you might as well play pure offence and try to get down ideally for the 9. The issue for trying a 2 way(ish) shot is that a lower speed that will bring an undercut 8b back to about where it is also just sells out to the top left corner if over cut. So unless you have a tendency to miss rail first shots in a certain way, I don't think you can worry about the leave too much and just have to fire away with the speed you think gets you good on the 9.
Click to expand...
This was my thought process in the match as well, went for full offense and shot it hard enough to be guaranteed some sort of shape on the 9 without caring what happens if I miss.
 
Safety. Play rail first just before the 8 moving it to the long rail and leaving the cue ball near the cushion. You want to leave the bank to the side sort of straight so your opponent has no easy way to bank and get to the 9.

I also like Bill's suggestion to get as much left as possible and move the 8 to the second diamond on the top rail. Leaving the cue ball on the bottom rail at the second diamond might work better than taking it all the way to the left end.

In general "what would you do here" posts are welcome in the main forum.
 
WobblyStroke said:
9 o'clock could be tough with CB on the rail ;)
Click to expand...
Ok, miscue, hit cue ball on its left side.
This is a speed control shot/Period.
If you just push the 8 to a non-bankable position, then you've NOW got the worst of it.
Opponent will then clip bank the 8 over to the other long rail or middle table, with MUCH easier cue ball speed control, one rail to the head rail.
You're on defense now.
With much less control of both balls than your first starting position.

bm
 
Bob Jewett said:
Safety. Play rail first just before the 8 moving it to the long rail and leaving the cue ball near the cushion. You want to leave the bank to the side sort of straight so your opponent has no easy way to bank and get to the 9.

I also like Bill's suggestion to get as much left as possible and move the 8 to the second diamond on the top rail. Leaving the cue ball on the bottom rail at the second diamond might work better than taking it all the way to the left end.

In general "what would you do here" posts are welcome in the main forum.
Click to expand...
Always hard to tell with these blown up ball diagrams, but I didn't see the 8b as being far enough off the rail to stick the CB. If it is far enough to go rail first to the rail side of the 8 and send it to the long rail while keeping the CB by the short rail, I think that would be too great a distance to ever consider trying to make it rail first as OP said he tried. So since it is close enough for the rail first offensive shot, I'm not sure we can keep the cue ball near the cushion. I can see us leaving a bank back to the corner with built in shape for the 9 for our opponent. If he plays it right and favors an undercut on the bank, we get a long bank on the 8 IF we even get back to the table.
 
Island Drive said:
Ok, miscue, hit cue ball on its left side.
This is a speed control shot/Period.
If you just push the 8 to a non-bankable position, then you've NOW got the worst of it.
Opponent will then clip bank the 8 over to the other long rail or middle table, with MUCH easier cue ball speed control, one rail to the head rail.
You're on defense now.
With much less control of both balls than your first starting position.

bm
Click to expand...
I like the idea of a safety but I'm not sure it's any easier to pull off than the rail first offensive shot. We have the worst of it either way. We are certainly less than 50/50 to get out from the OP position but some good misses exist for us. I guess how good a banker our opponent is factors into play here. Going offensive here does feel like a bit of a flyer but your speed control shot isn't exactly a cupcake either. I'd def try Bob's shot if it was there as that has a high degree of success imo, but I just don't think we can get under the 8 enough cuz if we could I don't think an offensive rail first option even enters the discussion.
 
Oikawa said:
View attachment 730853

9-ball, CB frozen to the cushion.

I had this exact layout and ended up going for the rail-first pot to play position for the 9 ball. Was left wondering if it was really the right shot.

I couldn't see any high percentage safeties, and all normal pots were out of the question. No realistic angle to get to the 9 with normal means, masse to manipulate the angle is way too risky.

Would you go for the rail first, and if so, what power would you use to maximize your odds of not leaving an easy pot if you miss?

Do you see something that I don't?
Click to expand...
Rail first w/ hi-left. Run on out!!
 
Maybe/maybe/maybe ...On a 3x6 cracker box.
The obj ball is NOT close to the short rail.
Rail first is a Hero shot on a 9 footer.
Why? Because shooter is UNABLE to cue low, whitey Must travel 3 rails for position striking it with high center, that shot NEEDS allot of cue ball speed.
 
I just tried all the methods above several times on my table.

By far, my best results were from the rail-first offensive shot. Had to really stroke it, but good shape on the 9 was automatic with top center and I got out 6/10 times. When I missed the 8, it would typically leave the 8 on the right end while the CB still got down near the 9, so not a sell-out on every miss. (My table is not a cracker box - 9ft Centennial with 4.5” pockets.)

Rolling the 8 in then attempting the long bank on the frozen 9 was a disaster, 0/10. The CB was close to or frozen to the rail each time, so very difficult to aim and stroke hard enough, and the double kiss was in play unless CB followed the 8 nearly to the pocket. Super high variance on the outcome, nothing got close. Mostly a sell-out.

Clipping the left edge of the 8 with left spin was also a disaster - had to jack up to get appreciable left (which still was minimal), making aiming on the thin cut tough due to swerve, and the CB just wanted to track to the bottom side pocket while the 8 typically bounced out far enough due to the CB speed to leave an easy shot for my opponent, assuming I didn’t scratch.

Bob’s defensive shot seemed to leave my opponent an easier safe in return more often than not as it was tough to hold the CB near the rail, but it was the second best option.
 
DeadStick said:
I just tried all the methods above several times on my table.

By far, my best results were from the rail-first offensive shot. Had to really stroke it, but good shape on the 9 was automatic with top center and I got out 6/10 times. When I missed the 8, it would typically leave the 8 on the right end while the CB still got down near the 9, so not a sell-out on every miss. (My table is not a cracker box - 9ft Centennial with 4.5” pockets.)

Rolling the 8 in then attempting the long bank on the frozen 9 was a disaster, 0/10. The CB was close to or frozen to the rail each time, so very difficult to aim and stroke hard enough, and the double kiss was in play unless CB followed the 8 nearly to the pocket. Super high variance on the outcome, nothing got close. Mostly a sell-out.

Clipping the left edge of the 8 with left spin was also a disaster - had to jack up to get appreciable left (which still was minimal), making aiming on the thin cut tough due to swerve, and the CB just wanted to track to the bottom side pocket while the 8 typically bounced out far enough due to the CB speed to leave an easy shot for my opponent, assuming I didn’t scratch.

Bob’s defensive shot seemed to leave my opponent an easier safe in return more often than not as it was tough to hold the CB near the rail, but it was the second best option.
Click to expand...
Nice. I was going to try this out tonight as well, but I trust you. I suspected rail first offensive shot would be best but 6/10 is well beyond my expectations. Good shooting.
 
Hard to tell from just a diagram, but this looks like a Jimmy Fusco special ---Jack up on the cb and kick the 8 full, rail first, with left draw spin, holding the cb as the 8 banks two rails, hitting past the cross side pocket and drifts towards the 9. Shooting jacked up shots off the rail takes practice but it's one of those essential shots in rotation games.
 
FranCrimi said:
Hard to tell from just a diagram, but this looks like a Jimmy Fusco special ---Jack up on the cb and kick the 8 full, rail first, with left draw spin, holding the cb as the 8 banks two rails, hitting past the cross side pocket and drifts towards the 9. Shooting jacked up shots off the rail takes practice but it's one of those essential shots in rotation games.
Click to expand...
If there was more angle maybe, but it is so str8ish that hitting it full in the face would never 2 rail it past the sides and might even catch the jaws of the pocket rather than the 2nd rail.
 
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