Lag time?

T

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
I'm under the impression that both players should lag at about the same time, I think the second player should shoot before the first lag ball touches the end rail. A lot of times, the opposing player will get down on the table before me and shoot as soon as my hand touches the table, forcing me to shoot quickly, with predictably poor results. This seems a bit ungentlemanly, any suggestions on how to handle this? Should I just stand there chalking my cue for a while, or maybe just fire their ball into the corner pocket and say "okay, your break!"
 
I always thought that the lag was supposed to be at roughly the same time. Second shooter shoots before the other shooter's ball hits the rail at the far end of the table.

I can't remember ever seeing a rule to that effect when I think about it. I have simply refused to lag when the other player tries to play games forcing them to relag when we are both ready. I think the second player lagging has a slight advantage for reasons I don't know. Watching the first ball roll seems to help calibrate your speed.

I think that just pottering about until their ball comes to a complete stop before lagging would raise some howls but also straighten out an opponent. At the very least wait until their ball crosses the centerline of the table on the return trip.

Hu
 
Twocylndr said:
No stipulation that both players break at the same time.
If opponent lags as soon as you get down on ball, since it bothers you, I’d stand back up and rechalk my cue, then settle back down.
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Tradition and the BCA Rule Book say simultaneous, FWIW.

Lou Figueroa
"The Hustler" too
 

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Patrick Johnson said:
What's the supposed advantage of lagging after your opponent?
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The idea is that the second player can look at how fast the first ball slows down and adjust his lag accordingly. Harry Sims used to teach lag second.

There is actually a rule about this. Here is the CSI rule:

The players will lag again if the lag is a tie, or if one player strikes the ball after the other player's ball has contacted the foot cushion.​
​
The WPA rule is about the same.

In some events, the referee actually gives a go signal when both players are ready.

At carom billiards, the players are not permitted to adjust the position of their cue ball prior to lagging. The rule about timing is the same as for pool, more or less, but if one player causes a problem twice, he loses the lag.
 
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The OP stated it appears to be “ungentilemanly”, I take that to be sharking.
As Hu said,”…pottering around…might straighten a player out.”
 
Twocylndr said:
No stipulation that both players break at the same time.
If opponent lags as soon as you get down on ball, since it bothers you, I’d stand back up and rechalk my cue, then settle back down.
Click to expand...
Which rule set are you going by?
 
Twocylndr said:
The OP stated it appears to be “ungentilemanly”, I take that to be sharking.
As Hu said,”…pottering around…might straighten a player out.”
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Yeah, I think it is just under the shaking threshold. I try to keep my game on the up and up so if I slip I'm still on the good side, or at least have the benefit of the doubt.

As far as lagging first or second, I've thought shooting first with a drag shot on the lag could throw off the other player but I think lagging well with a high ball will generally get better results.
 
Twocylndr said:
none. I thought I had read it in a different thread on AZB.
I heard a commentor on YouTube watching a Legends match up, state the players do not have to hit at the same time.
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If you're going to speak on the rules, it's better to have read them. And since they change from time to time, recently. They are available online. The two best bets are the CSI rules at playcsipool.com and the World Standardized Rules at wpapool.com. Ignore the other US leagues.

If you do read the rules, you will be ahead of most US tournament directors.
 
From CSI rules at playcsipool.com:
1-12
...The players shoot at approximately the same time toward the foot cushion...
I still stick by my original statement that you don't have to shoot at the same time. Maybe I should have said the EXACT same time.
I'm not saying minutes or even 30 seconds later, but coming up from shooting position, and then resetting.

2021 BCApl World Championships Tournament Regulations, Event Regulations (All Divisions)
A5 Determining First Break and Home Team makes no stipulation on timing of the Lag.
 
Twocylndr said:
From CSI rules at playcsipool.com:
1-12
...The players shoot at approximately the same time toward the foot cushion...
I still stick by my original statement that you don't have to shoot at the same time. Maybe I should have said the EXACT same time.
I'm not saying minutes or even 30 seconds later, but coming up from shooting position, and then resetting.

2021 BCApl World Championships Tournament Regulations, Event Regulations (All Divisions)
A5 Determining First Break and Home Team makes no stipulation on timing of the Lag.
Click to expand...

Yes, approximately, but what you are describing is just a do over.
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