If I'm reading this right you're saying you used to cheat when you played APA. It's a win/win that you don't anymore.
APA, FARGO and the death of 8 ball.....
- Thread starter HitHrdNDraw
- Start date
Me and everyone else that plays APA lol. When it's the only way to make it to Vegas you got to do what you got to do. Happily retired from shitty APA for that exact reason! I have friends that still make it to Vegas literally ever year and it's not from playing honestly and thats a fact. I now live in Vegas so I see them once a year now.
Want to go to Vegas, cheat like everyone else! It's the APA way.
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My team went to Vegas in 2018. We didn't cheat.
We went 4-2 out there, finished just out of the money.
Out of all the players we faced on those 6 teams, there may have been 3 that I would have considered bubble players, someone who could have been one skill level higher, but wasn't overwhelmingly under handicapped. Just before you go on to say that everyone in Vegas has cheated too, and they're all under handicapped. Not on the 6 teams we faced.
Did I tell you that we didn't cheat? We did not cheat.
There have been teams from my division that have gone several times in the 15 years that I've played. I do not suspect any of them of cheating. Their players all played very consistently to the skill levels.
I hate to burst your bubble, but just because you had to cheat to go, doesn't mean everyone does.
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You made it out one time lol. I made it 5 out of 8 years but whatever you say. It’s not a league for anyone trying to get better or be serious about pool. It serves a purpose just not for me anymore.
welcome to year one of leagues nothing much has changed.
And perhaps that's the difference? Cheaters can go multiple times, those who play by the rules might go once, if things go their way?
I'm good with that.
I can see only two ways you would make it 5 out of 8 years in my area. One is to be on several teams and go with different teams. I once had a player who captained six teams a week, all with different rosters. He went several times over a twenty-something-year period, but never with the same roster. His trick was finding who he thought was the best player in his divisions and putting them on his team, then filling out the roster with people he thought that player could coach up during a time out. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. His teams never did well in Vegas, having their fair share of the 25% two-and-outs.
The other way is to turn your roster over every year. I once had a couple (a 5 and a super 7) who did that. They put brand new players on their roster every summer and didn't coach them at all. No rules say that you have to coach or that you have to improve. Around the middle of Spring, they started coaching, knowing the system is a system of measurement that allows you to play matches as you improve before raising your skill level. By the end of Spring, some of their players had gone up but you never know when or how much improvement there will be. Through the tournaments, more players went up. They never sandbagged a single skill level but managed to time the improvement and get to Vegas three years in a row. No sandbagging, just the realization that the player who is improving to the next level gets to shoot that level a couple of times before going up. I see nothing wrong with that, it happens that way for everyone. It's unpredictable, but they managed to do it three years in a row. I don't know how many teams utilize that method, but it could explain why you see players who look like they're better than their number in Vegas. They qualify, then start practicing and taking lessons during the two months leading up to the event, and the improvement is just hitting the books then. Just because someone is shooting better than their number, it doesn't necessarily mean they're cheating or that they need to be punished instead of rewarded. The reverse is also true - APA has disqualified teams before even though they didn't think that team was cheating. There's a certain amount of improvement they will accept as normal but too much can get you disqualified. In those cases I think they relax the usual two-year suspension that comes along with disqualification. It's similar to golf tournaments where you get disqualified for shooting a round three or more strokes below your handicap - it's possible, but statistically improbable.
Aside from that, I can't think of a way a roster would make it a couple of times before I decided they were way outside the norm of the approximate one in 30 odds. Individual players may do it, but not whole rosters. Local oversight helps that, something it sounds like your area was lacking. Again, I think it's probably win/win that you don't play APA leagues any more. Good luck playing in a league where you don't feel the temptation to cheat, as you clearly don't seem to be able resist that temptation.
When the system punishes you for getting better no one tries to get better. You have improved and your handicap has gone up so now you need to find a new team. Great system you have there in the APA. If you walked into any bar in the country during an APA night all you will see is sandbagging and bitching and moaning about handicaps. It’s nothing but a Ponzi scheme to bring in new teams and players with zero interest in improving.
And if you want to go to Vegas you sandbag because 90% of the teams that make it do! Say what you want but it’s the truth wherever I’ve lived with APA.
I have played BCA for the past 5 years and have witnessed no bitching about handicaps or sandbagging because you are not rewarded for that in BCA. It’s just a much better league for anyone serious about getting better. And guess what I’ve NEVER sandbagged in BCA only APA where it’s rampant and necessary!
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Handicap systems don't punish, they challenge. And they all do it. Different ways, but they all do it. Name a handicap system that doesn't make it harder to win when you put the best players you can find on a team. It's an oxymoron. But congratulations on finding a league where you're not tempted to cheat. Just pay your way and go, right? Something to look forward to I guess. A lot of my members also play BCA and go to their event in Vegas. They enjoy both.
I'm not tempted to cheat (manipulate handicaps) because no one else is cheating in BCA. When teams were blatantly cheating in APA I was forced to do the same in order to be competitive and make it to Vegas. That's the culture for APA and it's been like that in every state I've been to.
So why didn't you play in APA Masters league? No handicaps, no bitching, no scamming. My guess you won't because you would get your ass handed to you.
How did you know? Actually we didn’t have masters in my area back then and we are talking about teams not singles.
Now my turn you’re another guy with a bunch of APA patches on his case who thinks he is a big shot because he’s maxed out in APA. Don’t forget to mark your pocket or be prepared to have the APA rule thrown at you. Happy New Year buckshot/bigshot.
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His point is you said EVERYONE cheats And his team did not. I personally have not or would either and it shows how shitty you are that you would just for a lousy trip to Vegas. Never speak in absolutes because all it does is make you look like an absolute Idiot.
Forced to? Someone held a gun to your head? Wow you should call a cop!
They often catch the true cheaters, if they get as far as Vegas. And if you truly went to Vegas 5 times, and actually showed your true speed when you played out there, you would have gone up and gotten locked...so did you lay down while out there, too?
Because you don't have to win to go to Vegas in BCA, you assume nobody is cheating. But every year I hear about teams who go there and should not be allowed in the tournament they're in, or individuals whose Fargo appears to be too low. "Nobody cheats in BCA" is just something you say to save face, it's not true. "Everybody cheats in APA" is also something you say to save face. The temptation to cheat might be greater in APA because you don't like the 1-in-30 or so chance of making it there honestly, and I can understand people who don't want to do what's hard, but that's what makes it such a prize to make it there honestly too. It's not the trip itself, but the fact that your team performed against those odds and earned an invitation to the tournament - you actually won something that's hard to win. Those who succumb to the temptation to cheat are all hereby invited to leave APA and never come back. We won't miss them.
If you read that right, cheating is the norm so if you don't, you are behind the curve.
Yeah, its awful that the one guy here with actual perspective from the APA actually points out things, compared to people who "know everyone" does this or does that.
What would you expect him to do? Say "yep, you're right"?
And perhaps, just maybe, things run in his territory the way he explains here. Does that mean that it runs that way everywhere, no. But it does mean that it can be run the way its intended, at least in his part of the world. (Oddly enough, it appears to operate in a similar way here in my part of the world, too. I must be a shill! If so, I need to be paid better for my "shill-ing!")
Or maybe some of us are tired of people dragging the APA here all the time, those who actually do enjoy and appreciate it.
Lol some years we didn't even show up for our matches. Back then when I played I had some serious drug and alcohol problems so we just partied out there. And I was never good enough to hide my speed my job as captain was to hide my teammates speed. Sometimes that meant playing them on matches they couldn't win others it was telling them they had to lose for the benefit of the team and keeping us under 23.
I've been sober for 7 years now about the last time I played APA. Not proud of everything I did while partying but I'm a completely different person now. As I stated APA has its purpose. If it weren't for leagues like APA many rooms around the country probably would not survive! It's just not for me or anyone actually trying to improve imo.
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