Should All Skill Levels Have an Equal Chance to Win a Weekly 9-Ball Handicapped Tournament?

C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As the room owner / manager / tournament director, this is the dilemma I ponder in our weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament.

Despite game handicaps that go as high as a 6/2 race for the highest vs the lowest ranked players, our highest ranked players still win over 80% of our tournaments even though they represent only 20-25% of the players. All our handicaps are game spots and I will not consider incorporating ball spots in to our handicaps.

The obvious contrasting schools of thought for a handicapped tournament are:

1) Every player in the tournament, accurately ranked, should have an equal chance to win any given match as well as winning the entire tournament as any other player in the field.

2) The higher skilled and higher ranked player will always have an advantage and be the favorite to win any given match against a lesser ranked player, and ultimately has a far better chance of a higher tournament finish and in winning the tournament.

There are many varied opinions on this issue. The better players feel they have paid their dues and should have an advantage over the weaker players. The weaker, often newer players feel they must have some realistic chance to win in order to keep donating $ to the stronger players.

Clearly I think we’d all agree the lesser skilled players benefit far more from the opportunity to match up against the skilled players and learn from them than the stronger players benefit from competing against the weaker players. As the TD, I struggle with trying to find the right compromise to satisfy all levels of players - virtually an impossible task. Opinions?
 
Jimmorrison said:
No handicap system should make it 50/50. The less skilled need to have a chance, but not an equal one. How often does someone from the middle of the pack, make the money?
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They do occasionally make it in the $ which is generally the top 20% of the field, but less than 10% of the tournaments will one of the lowest 2 ranks (of the 5 ranks) actually win the tournament.

It seems to me the most unhappy players are the middle ranked players. They lose to the lowest ranked players more than they should due to late game errors, and they generally lose matches to the higher ranked players due to the huge tactical advantages (safety play) the higher ranked players possess over them.
 
Generally speaking, the handicap will never get the weaker players dead even. In a short race they have a better chance. Generally speaking the best players will always complain that the handicap is too strong. This is as they end up in the finals. 😜. If this is the situation you probably have it handicapped about right. The weakest players need a chance and some should cash. The best players will usually take it down. And if they are smart they will not complain as the envelope they get at the end is probably fatter than the one they’d get in a non-handicapped event.
 
My view, as a lower skill player, is as long as its a reasonable chance, if I play very well and my opponent doesn't play quite as well as he usually does, it should be ok. Better players should win, when they play as well as they are capable, but no one plays at their best all the time.

So, not necessarily 50/50, but in the neighborhood, seems "fair" to me.
 
I agree with justadub, as a lower ranked player I don't expect nor really want to have a truly equal shot. I want something to strive for and work towards, so just give me a reasonable chance and I'm happy with that. If I play my best and get a little lucky I'd like to have a decent chance of landing in the money. But I don't think handicaps should be accounting for me playing bad, which my ranking does account for.
 
20% wins 80% of the time. So the best 2 players in a tournament of 10 players win 80% of the tournaments. That would be discouraging for the rest of the field in a handicapped tournament.

How are the pairings for round one made? Would random pairings help?
 
with 5 levels and a max offset of 6-2, there is no way for lower ranked guys to compete with the better players. a FR500 is a 4-1 dog vs a FR700 so 8-2 is fair. And Im sure when u say lower ranked players you are referring to well below 500. 600 to 400 is the same insurmountable 4:1 edge. That's just a reality of handicapped trnys....best players win, weakest players can get deep based on handicap and some rolls, and the middleclass gets evicerated by both.
 
derangedhermit said:
20% wins 80% of the time. So the best 2 players in a tournament of 10 players win 80% of the tournaments. That would be discouraging for the rest of the field in a handicapped tournament.

How are the pairings for round one made? Would random pairings help?
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Yes, opening pairings and any byes on the double elimination bracket are all randomly drawn pills, drawn by all the players themselves. And it’s about 6-7 of the top ranked players that dominate 80–85% of the tournament wins.
 
WobblyStroke said:
with 5 levels and a max offset of 6-2, there is no way for lower ranked guys to compete with the better players. a FR500 is a 4-1 dog vs a FR700 so 8-2 is fair. And Im sure when u say lower ranked players you are referring to well below 500. 600 to 400 is the same insurmountable 4:1 edge. That's just a reality of handicapped trnys....best players win, weakest players can get deep based on handicap and some rolls, and the middleclass gets evicerated by both.
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OK, here’s the dilemma - I will absolutely not allow a low ranked player to be able to win a match by winning 1 game on one lucky shot or one 9 ball hung in the pocket. And if we make the races any longer than to 5 or 6, we end up being here way too late in to the night / morning, even though we start matches at 6:30 PM.

That is why all our matchups are either 3/3, 4/3, 4/2, 5/2 or 6/2.
 
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You have basic issues that are impossible to get around. Winners find a way to win, losers find a way to lose. Part of the issue is that higher skilled players used to playing other highly skilled players have more reserve. To hear them tell it, they outrun the nuts almost every time they play. Nope, if they have to dig down deep to win that means the handicap was pretty close. On the other side those not used to winning will find a way to choke. People usually play to their own expectations. They don't expect to beat pro player X, so they find a way to play to their expectations.

Those players that are always bitching about the handicap don't put in the hours and work to win but think one more change in the handicap or one more rule change will make them a winner. Ain't gonna happen! If you gave them the sun, moon, and a few stars they would still be finishing in the same place after a few events. I dodge these players like poison. They have a pessimistic attitude and it is contagious. I don't want to catch it from them.

Sounds like you are doing a pretty good job now but you might try some team tournaments pairing worst and best players. Maybe draw them out of a hat the first time then keep adjusting partners according to finish. I wouldn't have these events but once every month or two. They are a change up is all. Might redraw every event, I don't know this is just a passing thought.

Everybody should have some realistic chance of winning and sometimes the only way to do that is to get paired with a monster. Based on experience you can't make everyone happy no matter what you do!

Hu
 
ChrisinNC said:
OK, here’s the dilemma - I will absolutely not allow a low ranked player to be able to win a match by winning 1 game on one lucky shot or one 9 ball hung in the pocket. And if we make the races any longer than to 5 or 6, we end up being here way too late in to the night / morning, even though we start matches at 6:30 PM.

That is why all our matchups are either 3/3, 4/3, 4/2, 5/2 or 6/2.
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Even tho it doesn't cover all the possibilities, I agree with your whole concept on this.
 
ChrisinNC said:
OK, here’s the dilemma - I will absolutely not allow a low ranked player to be able to win a match by winning 1 game on one lucky shot or one 9 ball hung in the pocket. And if we make the races any longer than to 5 or 6, we end up being here way too late in to the night / morning, even though we start matches at 6:30 PM.

That is why all our matchups are either 3/3, 4/3, 4/2, 5/2 or 6/2.
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oh i get it and agree with ur approach. that's why I chalk up ur dilemma as just a reality of handicapped events. The top guys will always have a big edge bc it just isn't feasible to make races long enough to even the odds and still finish in a reasonable time.
 
"Handicapped", by definition, negates "equal chance".

handicap /hăn′dē-kăp″/

noun​

  1. A race or contest in which contestants are given advantages or compensations to equalize the chances of winning.
  2. Such an advantage or penalty.
  3. A physical or mental disability.
  4. A disadvantage or inconvenience. synonym: disadvantage.
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All skill levels do have an approximate even chance of winning, in a handicapped match. However, because lower level players do not play as consistently as higher level players, lower level players aren’t as likely to win a tournament. The only way to give lower level players an equal chance to win a handicapped tournament is to give them a handicap that will overcome their skill level and their inconsistency. That seems completely unfair. Good luck finding a solution.


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Handicapped tourneys are for cowards and weaklings. I'll play with the competitors.

I have never played a handicapped tourney in my life, pool or foosball.
 
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