New Pool Player Observations.

[CageyCraigey]

Even in late 90’s. It cost me at least $100 a night to “learn” something. That was mostly a reiteration of how to lose. And is a reinforcement that the only way to really get better is practice more.

I won’t play if not for something unless we are friends. You better be throwing up at least $10 or a drink or something. I’ll give you a fair spot too. I’m the type though that won’t keep taking your money. Maybe once or twice. If you really want to learn and show it I don’t mind playing every once in a while as long as the action isn’t around and you don’t bother me.pretty sure there are others that would do the same for you.

Back to paragraph 1. You on the other hand get to watch some better players play- Free of charge in APA. I’m not going to lie though. A lot of the highs are there for the singles not for team play. They don’t always put their best shot out there in league, but you can still learn from them. Back when I played more the only time you really saw the better players play was when somebody else good came in. Otherwise they didn’t show their best game, only what they needed to show to win.

From what I’ve noticed maybe focus on the slightly older (40+) crew around 5 handicap levels. Those players tend to be happy where they are at and just enjoy playing. It’s less a pissing match for them then say a 22 yr old SL 5. And usually that type will play free or pretty cheap. Plus you are close to their level which makes for better games. And a lot of the 3’s are just there for fun too. They might not be as competitive. But You can always learn as long as you are playing. The one thing about the 3’s though. If you are a safety machine they might not enjoy playing with you much.

Interesting takes, thank you. Actually have had better players than me say stuff like my safety game isn't in the "spirit of the game" or such like. I am not a safety machine but I do have a knack for good safety shots for my ability level and as I have told them...what's the purpose of playing....to win! I. Not unpleasant. Someone beats me, shake their hand, tell them we'll played and thank them for the game. But I have zero issue using all the rules to legitimately win including safeties and I really do not understand the mindset of anyone who would not think that way.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Thank you for the advice. Why do all the serious players play 9 Ball as opposed to 8 ball?

The shots are more fun and skillful (generally). 8 ball is more about picking the best patterns with simpler shots.

9 ball forces you to play fancier shots because the order of the balls on the table will dictate that the CB has to fly around to get to the next ball.

There are definitely some advanced players that prefer 8-ball to 9-ball. But I’d personally estimate 90% favor 9 ball, and only 10% 8-ball.

 

[CageyCraigey]

Oh and sorry I’m writing so much. If you want to learn 14.1 or 1 pocket or 3 cushion you’re not going to find many who will play you unless you are already are semi-competent in said discipline. I don’t know about caroms. But Most playing 14.1 and one pocket are usually decent players at those games. Not many of the newer players even know how to play them. I wouldn’t try to play with most people who know the games unless they don’t know how to play either or you have practiced some first. Or if you are paying. It’s really going to be pointless for them to play you otherwise. I actually quit the last time I played 1 pocket with somebody because they had no clue how to play. It’s already a slow game.

To play 3-cushion. Probably learn the rules and as long as you are a solid banker with decent cb control maybe you could find a game. Same goes for all 3. A better player who didn’t know how to play 1 pocket or 14.1 could perform ok in all of those. But probably not very good without practicing them first. And wouldn’t be much of a game for a decent player in any of them.

I'm know what you are saying about trying to learn the games first but at the same time if players already play the game, were they not starting out at one time as well? I always try and read and practice the games before I go and play for the first time..I just tell the people hey this is my first time playing, do you mind if the first frame or two of I ask you questions if I get stuck on the procedures? Would that kinda attitude work?

 

[CageyCraigey]

The shots are more fun and skillful (generally). 8 ball is more about picking the best patterns with simpler shots.

9 ball forces you to play fancier shots because the order of the balls on the table will dictate that the CB has to fly around to get to the next ball.

There are definitely some advanced players that prefer 8-ball to 9-ball. But I’d personally estimate 90% favor 9 ball, and only 10% 8-ball.

Better start learning nine ball!!! Thanks!

 

[iusedtoberich]

Also on the professional side of pool, it’s all 9 ball (and occasionally 10-ball, which is basically the same game just with an additional ball).

8 ball is only played 1 tournament each year: the 8 ball WPA world championship.

 

[CageyCraigey]

3 cushion is probably going to be the hardest as I'm thinking it going to be difficult even finding a table to play on.

I'm not one that dresses up to play pool as I hate to dress up, but if that's what you want to do I'm not going to say anything against it.

There is one at my local hall and I do see people on there sometimes! Dom people play it with snooker or pool cues? Thanks.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Better start learning nine ball!!! Thanks!

Throw 3 balls on the table and run them out in numerical order. Do it over and over. That’s the crux of 9 ball. Planning 3 balls ahead. Also the most fundamental concept in position play is to leave yourself an angle. That enables you to move the CB anywhere on the table. You almost never want to be straight-in on a shot.

 

[iusedtoberich]

There is one at my local hall and I do see people on there sometimes! Dom people play it with snooker or pool cues? Thanks.

Dedicated carom players have specialized cues. But pool cues work fine! Just go play it.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

I'm know what you are saying about trying to learn the games first but at the same time if players already play the game, were they not starting out at one time as well? I always try and read and practice the games before I go and play for the first time..I just tell the people hey this is my first time playing, do you mind if the first frame or two of I ask you questions if I get stuck on the procedures? Would that kinda attitude work?

It’s that unpopped cherry attitude that’s gonna get you in trouble. Once you’re around the hall long enough you’ll figure it out.

 

[boogieman]

Do you have any thought at to why this bar manager culture has developed and become so prevalent? Was it always this way in the United States?

It's just the way it was. Then the people that played it the way taught their kids to play it the way it was. Think old honky tonk bars with half the patrons unironically wearing cowboy hats and boots smoking on a marlboro while playing. This was reality.

At least now with the internet it's easier to learn the real rules. I was probably 25 years old before I learned what BIH was. I always hated that "kitchen" crap as it would just let people foul and screw you. At least with BIH you don't get rewarded for fouling. That's how I explain it to people. Everyone has had their only ball in the "kitchen" and had to kick at it or such. They've watched someone intentionally scratch to screw them. I just tell the example and ask if it's right for someone to be rewarded for playing dirty pool... that makes their head spin.

It's a bit nostalgic to play this way if I'm honest about it. It's shit but if you know all the tricks it's easy. Hell, you don't even have to catch a rail if you make it look like it was an accident!

 

[boogieman]

The serious players all play 9 ball

Around here the serious players all got sick of getting whupped at 9B so they want to play 10B. The funny part is most of them can't run a rack on 9B so they bastardize 10B so it's only a safety battle until the last 3-4 balls. It's ridiculous and they still get destroyed but they somehow think 10B is a game for them. Just because you can't see a variety of shots and 2 ways doesn't make it "luck!"

 

[tim913]

Good advice so far
See if there’s an instructor at your Pool Room or nearby and take some lessons
That will definitely help guide your improvement

Yep worse thing you can do is practice bad habits! You’ll get real good at them and stay inconsistent forever

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

I'm know what you are saying about trying to learn the games first but at the same time if players already play the game, were they not starting out at one time as well? I always try and read and practice the games before I go and play for the first time..I just tell the people hey this is my first time playing, do you mind if the first frame or two of I ask you questions if I get stuck on the procedures? Would that kinda attitude work?

sorry for the snide remark

My whole point is You can work on your skill set and practice almost any game yourself before looking for somebody to play. You don’t need to find somebody to play to learn those games. Once you kind of know how to play them, then find other people to play with you.

 

[Grimper]

In my other thread someone asked why I took up Pool four months ago. Just to recap I have an incapacitating degenerative bone disease. In December it was really bad and I had to do something to get me out and competitive. I visited a local pool hall. Found what I was after! Now I play to an APA Level 4 and practice or play 2-3 times per week. I am driven to get better.

Here are some observations of a newbie Pool player. More stream of consciousness stuff but I would love to hear the thoughts and experiences of other players.

1. I love playing in the APA league but other teams exploit the time out rules and by by end of the league there seems to be a lot of disillusioned players.

2. I love playing. I don't care if it is against a better or worse player but to find people to regularly play matches against like races to X amount of frames without serious money on the table seems impossible to find. Lots of people want to play game after game but not make it into any kind of contest.

3. I badly want to learn how to play 9 Ball and 14.1 Pool and Carom Billiards but it seems impossible to find players who want to show a newbie the ropes despite playing at a very busy pool hall in a populated area.

4. Leagues seem to take up 4 week nights a week and tournaments all the tables during the day Saturday and Sunday surely limiting people's chances to learn the game.

5. Is it as tough as it seems.if you know so few people to find a group of two or three others who can meet say only one day per week and occupy a table for a few hours playing each other?

6. I like to dress for pool. For me wearing a dress shirt, a tie, a vest and a nice pair of slacks puts me in the mood to play. I am.very much in the minority there.

7. Equipment...of players who I see who are not using house cues they seem to fall into three categories. Players with simple looking equipment, all wood cues, for example, but obviously take care of them very well. Players with very high tech looking equipment that they seem to think helps their game. Players who will tell you every single detail about their cues, their history, their custom.refinements and so on and when they play poorly will literally blame almost anything except themselves.

8. How do I get a Fargo score, please?

9. Why is it if you do play a game with someone like Call Shot 8 Ball will they sometimes I reproduce a rule that inevitably favors them halfway through a game? Shouldn't everyone agree on basic rules first?

10. I do not understand why safety play is looked down upon. To me it is one of the most fun and challenging parts of the game to play well. Also because of my physical issues, I have found it really helpful to buy my own mechanical bridge with a choice of heads. Yet I have been told more than I've that is cheating or they are not allowed.

All that said, I love playing Pool and want to keep playing it for a long time..if anyone is in the Phoenix area and wants to play, please do let me know.

Cheers,

Craig.

Do yourself a big favor and get out of APA. Get in a Valley or BCA league.

 

[CageyCraigey]

It's just the way it was. Then the people that played it the way taught their kids to play it the way it was. Think old honky tonk bars with half the patrons unironically wearing cowboy hats and boots smoking on a marlboro while playing. This was reality.

At least now with the internet it's easier to learn the real rules. I was probably 25 years old before I learned what BIH was. I always hated that "kitchen" crap as it would just let people foul and screw you. At least with BIH you don't get rewarded for fouling. That's how I explain it to people. Everyone has had their only ball in the "kitchen" and had to kick at it or such. They've watched someone intentionally scratch to screw them. I just tell the example and ask if it's right for someone to be rewarded for playing dirty pool... that makes their head spin.

It's a bit nostalgic to play this way if I'm honest about it. It's shit but if you know all the tricks it's easy. Hell, you don't even have to catch a rail if you make it look like it was an accident!

God I have run into loads of the people you describe in he first two paragraphs. There is a whole social history book to be written on the phenomena you describe there!

 

[CageyCraigey]

sorry for the snide remark

My whole point is You can work on your skill set and practice almost any game yourself before looking for somebody to play. You don’t need to find somebody to play to learn those games. Once you kind of know how to play them, then find other people to play with you.

I didn't take it as snide. No worries!

 

[easy-e]

In my other thread someone asked why I took up Pool four months ago. Just to recap I have an incapacitating degenerative bone disease. In December it was really bad and I had to do something to get me out and competitive. I visited a local pool hall. Found what I was after! Now I play to an APA Level 4 and practice or play 2-3 times per week. I am driven to get better.

Here are some observations of a newbie Pool player. More stream of consciousness stuff but I would love to hear the thoughts and experiences of other players.

1. I love playing in the APA league but other teams exploit the time out rules and by by end of the league there seems to be a lot of disillusioned players.

2. I love playing. I don't care if it is against a better or worse player but to find people to regularly play matches against like races to X amount of frames without serious money on the table seems impossible to find. Lots of people want to play game after game but not make it into any kind of contest.

3. I badly want to learn how to play 9 Ball and 14.1 Pool and Carom Billiards but it seems impossible to find players who want to show a newbie the ropes despite playing at a very busy pool hall in a populated area.

4. Leagues seem to take up 4 week nights a week and tournaments all the tables during the day Saturday and Sunday surely limiting people's chances to learn the game.

5. Is it as tough as it seems.if you know so few people to find a group of two or three others who can meet say only one day per week and occupy a table for a few hours playing each other?

6. I like to dress for pool. For me wearing a dress shirt, a tie, a vest and a nice pair of slacks puts me in the mood to play. I am.very much in the minority there.

7. Equipment...of players who I see who are not using house cues they seem to fall into three categories. Players with simple looking equipment, all wood cues, for example, but obviously take care of them very well. Players with very high tech looking equipment that they seem to think helps their game. Players who will tell you every single detail about their cues, their history, their custom.refinements and so on and when they play poorly will literally blame almost anything except themselves.

8. How do I get a Fargo score, please?

9. Why is it if you do play a game with someone like Call Shot 8 Ball will they sometimes I reproduce a rule that inevitably favors them halfway through a game? Shouldn't everyone agree on basic rules first?

10. I do not understand why safety play is looked down upon. To me it is one of the most fun and challenging parts of the game to play well. Also because of my physical issues, I have found it really helpful to buy my own mechanical bridge with a choice of heads. Yet I have been told more than I've that is cheating or they are not allowed.

All that said, I love playing Pool and want to keep playing it for a long time..if anyone is in the Phoenix area and wants to play, please do let me know.

Cheers,

Craig.

Where do you play in the Phoenix area? I see you live close to Main Street. I play there often and you're right about the leagues. It's almost every night! That's great for the room itself since it's always busy, but not great if you want a bar table to yourself at night. Every player in our area is scared of getting beat by a person without a rating, so you need to take care of that ASAP. Metro has cheap tournaments almost every night and you don't need an established Fargo to play, but they report the games to Fargo so you can get rated. Also (and a little closer to you) Natalie's has chip tournaments every Friday night and they report the games to Fargo.
There are several 600+ player at Main Street every day if you feel like watching for a while. We're also lucky to have Joven in our area, currently sitting around 780 Fargo. He'll play cheap pool with almost anyone, but you don't get to play much....

 

[CageyCraigey]

Where do you play in the Phoenix area? I see you live close to Main Street. I play there often and you're right about the leagues. It's almost every night! That's great for the room itself since it's always busy, but not great if you want a bar table to yourself at night. Every player in our area is scared of getting beat by a person without a rating, so you need to take care of that ASAP. Metro has cheap tournaments almost every night and you don't need an established Fargo to play, but they report the games to Fargo so you can get rated. Also (and a little closer to you) Natalie's has chip tournaments every Friday night and they report the games to Fargo.
There are several 600+ player at Main Street every day if you feel like watching for a while. We're also lucky to have Joven in our area, currently sitting around 780 Fargo. He'll play cheap pool with almost anyone, but you don't get to play much....

Hi there!

Usually I play Main Street. Seems like I really need to get a Fargo rating. I have played casually at Natalie's as well. Although I am typing this from Charlotte airport I will be back in town this afternoon and plan on heading out to Main Street around 430PM this evening. Would love to meet some people.

 

[boogieman]

God I have run into loads of the people you describe in he first two paragraphs. There is a whole social history book to be written on the phenomena you describe there!

I was probably 5 or 6 years old so I don't remember many stories.

Now, I don't mean it as a slight to their character. Most were good people, didn't cuss in front of kids or women (except Cowboy, I kid you not he was the cussingest dude you ever met and he was an old alcoholic farmer, mean as hell but even then he had his good points). But when you got them on a pool table my goodness did the competitiveness come out. Usually well mannered but there were a few hot heads. Put your quarters on the rail to get a turn. This was the mid to late 80s in a rural-ish area. It wasn't bad necessarily, just how people are. They were more real than most people nowadays. Draft beers for the most part and old country western bumping on the jukebox. A little rough around the edges but not so rough that the place wasn't frequented with families and folks out on a date night.

The proprietor was something else. He collected hats, so on the rafters you saw everything from baseball caps, to "viking" helmets complete with horns. As a kid I loved looking at them. He also had a penchant for breaking the law. He drove to the next state to buy cheap liquor, refilled the bottles that had our state's tax stamp and broke the "illegal" glass bottles into fine pieces to get rid of the evidence and disposed of them on a farm. He had a heart of gold and when they moved I remember them leaving on a plane and watching from about 50' away next to our car and he and his wife waving out the window. It was the first time I remember seeing my dad's eyes water. Really good folks. And man was this place just jumping on the weekends. Fast service but you still might have to wait for half an hour to get a seat.

It was the place where folks came from miles around for a good steak. He used to drive around in a radius of about 40 miles (back when there were supermarkets as well as butcher shops) and pick out the best steaks they had at each place. My dad drove around with him to do this quite a bit. My mom worked as a cook/bartender there for several years. It was funny because she wasn't/isn't a drinker but it was a job close to home. And man can she cook a mean steak (as well as about anything).

I wish I had some pics of the place but I don't. There were 2 valley (or that style) 7' in the top and 1 in the basement, which had a second fully furnished bar. The top had a wooden bar, the basement was that black leather and chrome type deal. The front door was ancient but well build, a huge oval glass in the door and intricate wood carving. An old style brass pull with the thumb piece you had to push down to open. Schlitz signs/clocks and such. Hardwood floors, etc. Really a neat place from a bygone era.

I remember there was a couple that came in that just stank. Gary (the owner) confronted the guy about it. The guy said that his smell just drove his wife wild in bed. Natural smell or something. Gary handed him a bar of soap and told him to go wash up on the sand bar if nothing else because it was making people sick and was bad for business! Now don't ask my how he did this without getting punched, but the guy did go down and scrub himself some and came back like nothing had happened! I think Gary gave him one on the house. He was kind hearted and he had the gift of gab.

 

[thoffen]

Hi Craig, you sound like a blast to play with and teach. Hopefully you'll find someone to show you the ropes. I'm in Atlanta so it won't be me, but I appreciate the attitude it goes a long way.