It’s not the league

Willowbrook Wolfy

Willowbrook Wolfy

Going pro
A lot of people knock APA. Even I knock APA sometimes because it’s not very competitive. I’d even say it can slow your progression slightly. But people forget the fact that it’s got nothing to do with what league you’re in if you want to get better. The only way to get better is to practice. You know, actually play by yourself for a while from time to time. Put in some hours to get better by yourself. If you can find time that there’s not a league going on😂😂😂.(that’s the kicker)

If you can’t find that time, you are never gonna get as good as you’d like to be. Unless you have really low expectations.
 
....but...but... if someone beats me they are obviously sandbagging!

We need to focus less on handicaps and more on playing our best game. If someone is playing better because they are practicing, I'm happy for them!

Win or lose, it's all about learning and progression for me. It's a fun sport and one that I try like hell to improve in.
 
justadub said:
You get what you make out of it, which is true of pretty much anything. Will playing APA lead you to high level competition? Probably not. But for average folks, it can be just fine.
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I don’t think any league will lead you there. I’ve given it some thought as many have said join a ACS or BCA league if you want to get better. What’s the difference between those and APA Masters? My new response to those people that really feel APA is slowing them down-if you want to be your best quit playing leagues altogether. It doesn’t matter the league. No matter what league you’re playing you’re going to be playing lower skilled players sometimes. Maybe not as many but you’re still gonna be playing lows. And the fact of the matter is, you’ll be much better practicing for those three hours then sitting around on league day for 2 of the 3.

That’s really always been my opinion. Well also to get better you do have to play people sometimes. But that’s what tournaments are for.

So you could also look at it this way. A good pro(~800) walks into a room full of 600-650’s for a tournament. With one 675 and a 700 in there. And a few 550’s too. All decent shots, right? That pro probably feels like he’s playing in league that night. He’s around 2x as good as the next best player there. And around 4x better than most there. In APA terms- he is an avg(for lack of better calculation)APA 7 playing APA 5’s/6’s and below straight races all night. There’s not even another 7 for him to play. So maybe league is actually good to prepare for said scenario. No league will get you there. They can steer you in the right direction but that’s it.
 
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Willowbrook Wolfy said:
A lot of people knock APA. Even I knock APA sometimes because it’s not very competitive. I’d even say it can slow your progression slightly.
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Funny thing... I happened to wander in to my local room during the regional singles tourney a few months back and the only local top player missing from the elite bracket was me. Everyone else plays regular CPA(APA)...lol. It was legitimately the top 8 shots in the region (again excluding myself). Can't get much more competitive than that.

For a brief moment... very brief. I thought I was missing out.
 
I used to enjoy leagues even the APA which I consider the least enjoyable by far. The one thing leagues can do is get people more accustomed to playing competitively.

For me that was the big plus about leagues. It definitely helped me get ready for weekend tournaments.

The ACS I played in in the Chicago burbs was the best league ever. You play lots of pool, five matches per night, compared to one or two in TAP and APA. Met RJ there and introduced him to Magic Chalk!!
 
Quesports said:
I used to enjoy leagues even the APA which I consider the least enjoyable by far. The one thing leagues can do is get people more accustomed to playing competitively.

For me that was the big plus about leagues. It definitely helped me get ready for weekend tournaments.

The ACS I played in in the Chicago burbs was the best league ever. You play lots of pool, five matches per night, compared to one or two in TAP and APA. Met RJ there and introduced him to Magic Chalk!!
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I've bought Magic Chalk from RJ before ;)
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
I don’t think any league will lead you there. I’ve given it some thought as many have said join a ACS or BCA league if you want to get better. What’s the difference between those and APA Masters? My new response to those people that really feel APA is slowing them down-if you want to be your best quit playing leagues altogether. It doesn’t matter the league. No matter what league you’re playing you’re going to be playing lower skilled players sometimes. Maybe not as many but you’re still gonna be playing lows. And the fact of the matter is, you’ll be much better practicing for those three hours then sitting around on league day for 2 of the 3.

That’s really always been my opinion. Well also to get better you do have to play people sometimes. But that’s what tournaments are for.

So you could also look at it this way. A good pro(~800) walks into a room full of 600-650’s for a tournament. With one 675 and a 700 in there. And a few 550’s too. All decent shots, right? That pro probably feels like he’s playing in league that night. He’s around 2x as good as the next best player there. And around 4x better than most there. In APA terms- he is an avg(for lack of better calculation)APA 7 playing APA 5’s/6’s and below straight races all night. There’s not even another 7 for him to play. So maybe league is actually good to prepare for said scenario. No league will get you there. They can steer you in the right direction but that’s it.
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It all depends on your skill and your definition of getting better. If you're a 650 or higher player, playing league, especially APA, isn't gonna do much for you beyond keeping a cue in your hand some. You're not likely to find many (if any) your ability to match up with, so the best you'll get out of it is working on the pressure of staying ahead of the spot.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
A lot of people knock APA. Even I knock APA sometimes because it’s not very competitive. I’d even say it can slow your progression slightly. But people forget the fact that it’s got nothing to do with what league you’re in if you want to get better. The only way to get better is to practice. You know, actually play by yourself for a while from time to time. Put in some hours to get better by yourself. If you can find time that there’s not a league going on😂😂😂.(that’s the kicker)

If you can’t find that time, you are never gonna get as good as you’d like to be. Unless you have really low expectations.
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I’ve taken this to such an extreme that I am now over ten years from being in any type of team league, and prefer to play by myself. I’ll play with someone else about 1 out of 10 days I go to the pool hall.

I also don’t frequent that talented of a place.

The entire hobby has really shifted from competition to meditation.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
A lot of people knock APA. Even I knock APA sometimes because it’s not very competitive. I’d even say it can slow your progression slightly. But people forget the fact that it’s got nothing to do with what league you’re in if you want to get better. The only way to get better is to practice. You know, actually play by yourself for a while from time to time. Put in some hours to get better by yourself. If you can find time that there’s not a league going on😂😂😂.(that’s the kicker)

If you can’t find that time, you are never gonna get as good as you’d like to be. Unless you have really low expectations.
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I have always put in the practice. A high speed shortstop in L.A. once told me you put in the practice time and <THEN> you go around see how it runs.
 
On APA, some acquaintances moved to Jersey and last I heard were having the pool time of their lives. Different strokes...
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
I don’t think any league will lead you there. I’ve given it some thought as many have said join a ACS or BCA league if you want to get better. What’s the difference between those and APA Masters? My new response to those people that really feel APA is slowing them down-if you want to be your best quit playing leagues altogether. It doesn’t matter the league. No matter what league you’re playing you’re going to be playing lower skilled players sometimes. Maybe not as many but you’re still gonna be playing lows. And the fact of the matter is, you’ll be much better practicing for those three hours then sitting around on league day for 2 of the 3.

That’s really always been my opinion. Well also to get better you do have to play people sometimes. But that’s what tournaments are for.

So you could also look at it this way. A good pro(~800) walks into a room full of 600-650’s for a tournament. With one 675 and a 700 in there. And a few 550’s too. All decent shots, right? That pro probably feels like he’s playing in league that night. He’s around 2x as good as the next best player there. And around 4x better than most there. In APA terms- he is an avg(for lack of better calculation)APA 7 playing APA 5’s/6’s and below straight races all night. There’s not even another 7 for him to play. So maybe league is actually good to prepare for said scenario. No league will get you there. They can steer you in the right direction but that’s it.
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I think the main reason people reccomend bca over apa is that it is more true to the ruleset and no hidden handicapping system. I prefer bca/wpa rules.

Leagues have a place. I am not one for group leagues though. I go to the hall to play, not sit and watch other people play. I play singles or doubles league where we play 7 games, and scores are kept over the 4 months and tallied at the end. These are inhouse leagues were dues all go back to the players.

Everyone has different goals to achive. I see no reason to mock someone who enjoys a different aspect of the game than i do.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
A lot of people knock APA. Even I knock APA sometimes because it’s not very competitive. I’d even say it can slow your progression slightly. But people forget the fact that it’s got nothing to do with what league you’re in if you want to get better. The only way to get better is to practice. You know, actually play by yourself for a while from time to time. Put in some hours to get better by yourself. If you can find time that there’s not a league going on😂😂😂.(that’s the kicker)

If you can’t find that time, you are never gonna get as good as you’d like to be. Unless you have really low expectations.
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Yes, very true, if you can practice productively. Do you know how to practice pool? Do you know what to practice? I don’t. I know how to practice golf. I can take instruction and apply it. I can make my way around a golf course better than the vast majority of the population. I can’t get past 520. I joined a league. Quickly became one of the top players. Bought a table, took a nice jump. That was it, completely plateaued. No idea what to practice. Practice serves no purpose, if you’re just treading water.
 
Jimmorrison said:
Yes, very true, if you can practice productively. Do you know how to practice pool? Do you know what to practice? I don’t. I know how to practice golf. I can take instruction and apply it. I can make my way around a golf course better than the vast majority of the population. I can’t get past 520. I joined a league. Quickly became one of the top players. Bought a table, took a nice jump. That was it, completely plateaued. No idea what to practice. Practice serves no purpose, if you’re just treading water.
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Weed out the errors.
 
Jimmorrison said:
I can’t get past 520. I joined a league. Quickly became one of the top players. Bought a table, took a nice jump. That was it, completely plateaued. No idea what to practice. Practice serves no purpose, if you’re just treading water.
Click to expand...
Also very true. I know that exact feeling. It’s because there was no one better to help you figure it out. But even if you can’t get better, you better pick up a cue from time to time and practice something or you’ll get worse. I have a good story on this very thing but trying to cut down on really lengthy posts.

Sounds like you learn from someone explaining what to do or what needs to be done in certain situations then practicing it. I learn from playing better players occasionally and figuring out what to practice by what I’m missing when in a competitive game. Some get better by just practicing drills. Others can learn what to practice by watching others play. Then there is YouTube. But whatever helps you get better is still going to involve practice time by yourself to maximize your potential in the shortest amount of time or maybe ever. Unless maybe you are in some small percentage of people that only gets better playing others and practice makes you worse.🤷‍♂️
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
A lot of people knock APA. Even I knock APA sometimes because it’s not very competitive. I’d even say it can slow your progression slightly. But people forget the fact that it’s got nothing to do with what league you’re in if you want to get better. The only way to get better is to practice. You know, actually play by yourself for a while from time to time. Put in some hours to get better by yourself. If you can find time that there’s not a league going on😂😂😂.(that’s the kicker)

If you can’t find that time, you are never gonna get as good as you’d like to be. Unless you have really low expectations.
Click to expand...
Your so right. As a 7/9 when I was in apa I would have the mid level players asking me how to get better. I would always ask them how much are they playing. They would always give you the answer I play leagues 3 times a week or something like that. My answer would be your doing pretty good for some One just playing leagues but if you really want to get better that’s not it. Then I would tell them the work I put in 7 days a week and have for decades now. Explain to them apa is fun and keep doing it if you enjoy it but also find some tournaments where there is no handicap and you have to throw your nuts on the table and find out the player you are not hide behind a handicap. Leagues or tournaments or whatever are how you find out if the work you’re putting in is making you better. You talk to any low handicap golfer and unless they are just and idiot savant I promise you they spent a lot of time at the driving range and that putting greens working on shots to become good. They didn’t just show up and play 18 holes once or twice a week.
 
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