Most common types of spin used

Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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What kind of spins do players usually use? You may have heard that 80% of shots should be played on the vertical axis, but what do players actually do?

I think there may have been a thread like this before but I couldn't find it.

To give an example, I watched a nine ball match between Buddy Hall and Rodney Morris from 1996 and tried to count the time each of nine spins was used. Here is my somewhat subjective result from that match. I tried to figure out how they hit the cue ball from what it did off the object ball and off any rail.

Types of spin​
Draw​
Center/Stun​
Follow​
Outside​
47​
11​
21​
Center​
33​
14​
35​
Inside​
0​
0​
11​

There were 14 shots that were kicks or jumps that I did not count. I also didn't count break shots.

Conclusions: Inside spin was rare. Draw was more common than follow and center/stun was a distant third. Most shots used side spin by a small margin.

The two players are from a previous generation. Hall in particular has been noted as playing a relatively simple game. Maybe the new crop uses spin differently.
 
Bob Jewett said:
What kind of spins do players usually use? You may have heard that 80% of shots should be played on the vertical axis, but what do players actually do?

I think there may have been a thread like this before but I couldn't find it.

To give an example, I watched a nine ball match between Buddy Hall and Rodney Morris from 1996 and tried to count the time each of nine spins was used. Here is my somewhat subjective result from that match. I tried to figure out how they hit the cue ball from what it did off the object ball and off any rail.

Types of spin​
Draw​
Center/Stun​
Follow​
Outside​
47​
11​
21​
Center​
33​
14​
35​
Inside​
0​
0​
11​

There were 14 shots that were kicks or jumps that I did not count. I also didn't count break shots.

Conclusions: Inside spin was rare. Draw was more common than follow and center/stun was a distant third. Most shots used side spin by a small margin.

The two players are from a previous generation. Hall in particular has been noted as playing a relatively simple game. Maybe the new crop uses spin differently.
Click to expand...

What’s your personal ratio when playing a typical 9ball match?
 
Bob Jewett said:
What kind of spins do players usually use? You may have heard that 80% of shots should be played on the vertical axis, but what do players actually do?

I think there may have been a thread like this before but I couldn't find it.

To give an example, I watched a nine ball match between Buddy Hall and Rodney Morris from 1996 and tried to count the time each of nine spins was used. Here is my somewhat subjective result from that match. I tried to figure out how they hit the cue ball from what it did off the object ball and off any rail.

Types of spin​
Draw​
Center/Stun​
Follow​
Outside​
47​
11​
21​
Center​
33​
14​
35​
Inside​
0​
0​
11​

There were 14 shots that were kicks or jumps that I did not count. I also didn't count break shots.

Conclusions: Inside spin was rare. Draw was more common than follow and center/stun was a distant third. Most shots used side spin by a small margin.

The two players are from a previous generation. Hall in particular has been noted as playing a relatively simple game. Maybe the new crop uses spin differently.
Click to expand...
Great idea, Bob.

Looks about like I’d expect: more draw than follow, not much on the equator, a little less side spin than expected.

Would love to see comparisons of skill levels, games, etc. - how’s your spare time?

pj
chgo
 
Last edited:
Outside is used more frequently because we play a game with boundaries (rails). It’s better to come off the rail with outside draw then inside English thus making the ball travel back inside the table. Inside hit usually pushes the ball forward too.

We play the game behind the cue ball so our vision of what’s in front of us encourages us to bring the ball back.

If the next object ball is behind us (cue ball) then we tend to draw to avoid any balls that may be in its path if we were to follow through and go off a rail.

Inside English is effective in the short game. Middle of table from side pocket to side pocket. Too many angles near the side pocket. Need the inside to help kill the cue ball from rolling off .

This is just my opinion though.
 
Big table short rack, lots of space, it's probably better to go "rail to rail". Regardless I see nearly every player favoring outside even through traffic, when a simple kill shot will keep the ball inline.
 
tim913 said:
A lot of players will use a touch of outside just to negate the cling, even Buddy called it “halping english” .. has nothing to do with shape
Click to expand...
I used to be a Sigel addict and always wondered - the incessant outside english. With new conditions I only use it to propel the rock. ' Course as the conditions age and humidity goes up, outside goes from helping to absolutely necessary.
 
Bob Jewett said:
What kind of spins do players usually use? You may have heard that 80% of shots should be played on the vertical axis, but what do players actually do?

I think there may have been a thread like this before but I couldn't find it.

To give an example, I watched a nine ball match between Buddy Hall and Rodney Morris from 1996 and tried to count the time each of nine spins was used. Here is my somewhat subjective result from that match. I tried to figure out how they hit the cue ball from what it did off the object ball and off any rail.

Types of spin​
Draw​
Center/Stun​
Follow​
Outside​
47​
11​
21​
Center​
33​
14​
35​
Inside​
0​
0​
11​

There were 14 shots that were kicks or jumps that I did not count. I also didn't count break shots.

Conclusions: Inside spin was rare. Draw was more common than follow and center/stun was a distant third. Most shots used side spin by a small margin.

The two players are from a previous generation. Hall in particular has been noted as playing a relatively simple game. Maybe the new crop uses spin differently.
Click to expand...
I think Efren used inside quite a bit more than the average pro when he hit the scene. I think the advent of LD shafts made it more common for a lot of players to use inside center and follow.
 
Here is my take - with today’s super fast playing conditions, outside spin using multiple rails helps control CB speed and allows for less actual stroke speed. It also often brings the CB into and not across the position zone .
Inside spin requires more OB contact point adjustment , especially at longer distances , LD may help to negate some of this adjustment - but most players don’t trust their aim with inside at longer distances so inside is mostly used as a CB kill tool at shorter distance shots. Back spin is used as a CB kill tool on longer shots.
 
draw is used on all long stop type shots. so that skews the results of draw. outside as said is traditionally used for stopping the push of the object ball.
most often nine ball is what game is used to determine that stuff. but in other games it is or may be vastly different.
in one pocket draw is used much less than follow. except maybe when the balls are open.

for the average decent player having a good inside english game adds much value as they are not in position as often. and need it to actually get to where they need to go with the cue ball.
 
Center and Draw inside are really highly underated. I never see it enough. I also think that because pocketing a ball with low inside is a tougher shot to execute too.
 
Zerksies said:
Center and Draw inside are really highly underated. I never see it enough. I also think that because pocketing a ball with low inside is a tougher shot to execute too.
Click to expand...
There are times when I opt for using center or high inside to go 3 rails over using low outside to get to the same place, seems more predictable speed and distance wise for me.

Then again, maybe that's an indication I need to work on my distance when using low outside.
 
14.1 breakshots use spin often.

Overhitting shots with spin produces observable effects, controlled power shots with spin take longer to see the magic of physics.

Playing 14.1 breakshots is training for carom or 3 Cushion or 4ball. The spin in a 14.1 breakshot is at the upper limits of the miscue while 3 cushion is on the low end and the not easy to see measures of physics.

The use of 3 cushion spin vs pocket billiards spin is worth noting.

Carom has many masse shots and it has many shots that use the rails.

Carom would be the ultimate way to study spin for cue sports.

I have been working on a spin system for carom, it is a slow development. This discussion is appreciated.
 
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