Most common types of spin used

[iusedtoberich]

On the predator spot shot format, was there a single player that played that BIH shot on the vertical centerline? Vertical centerline hits are for straight in shots. That's about it. Some specific cut shots where you hit them with speed to go back and forth straight across the table work with center ball, but they must be struck with speed. Although even many of those will need a hair of inside depending on the cut angle. Slow roll is death with center ball.

90% of cut shots will have side spin on them. Straight in shots are mostly vertical centerline. But very few straight in shots exist during a game compared to cut shots.

 

[ChrisinNC]

What kind of spins do players usually use? You may have heard that 80% of shots should be played on the vertical axis, but what do players actually do?

I think there may have been a thread like this before but I couldn't find it.

To give an example, I watched a nine ball match between Buddy Hall and Rodney Morris from 1996 and tried to count the time each of nine spins was used. Here is my somewhat subjective result from that match. I tried to figure out how they hit the cue ball from what it did off the object ball and off any rail.

Types of spin​	Draw​	Center/Stun​	Follow​
Outside​	47​	11​	21​
Center​	33​	14​	35​
Inside​	0​	0​	11​

There were 14 shots that were kicks or jumps that I did not count. I also didn't count break shots.

Conclusions: Inside spin was rare. Draw was more common than follow and center/stun was a distant third. Most shots used side spin by a small margin.

The two players are from a previous generation. Hall in particular has been noted as playing a relatively simple game. Maybe the new crop uses spin differently.

I disagree with the 0’s for inside draw and inside center/stun. The need to utilize either of these doesn’t come up that often, but when it does the ability to successfully execute a shot with either of these can potentially offer the highest percentage positioning route to get on the next ball.

 

[Poolmanis]

I believe I have pretty equal distribution of different english usage. Most common plain high english but I seem to use more high inside than outside. Next is half tip outside english with just a little draw.
I think my playing is more balanced with english usage than any other player i know.

 

[BelleBelle]

I seem to use more high inside outside stun draw than anything else

 

[AtLarge]

The creator of the iCue practice/training ball (Thomas Van Eck) did something similar in developing his product. ...

Van Eck's chart is interesting, even without the inside or outside detail. You mentioned that he charted over 15 matches that way. Is the Archer/Reyes match the only one you have?

Bob's numbers in post #1 show 52% (90 of 172) of the shots he counted were hit inside or outside. Van Eck's chart shows that, for balls pocketed, the percentages hit left or right of center were 56% (71 of 127) for Archer and 55% (59 of 108) for Reyes. So pretty consistent off-center results for all 3!

 

[iusedtoberich]

To Bob: On your results, if a player hit a drag shot (low CB hit) where the CB rolled forward after contact with the OB, were you counting that as draw or follow? And if the CB stopped dead after OB contact, were you counting as a draw shot or center/stun shot?

 

[Bob Jewett]

To Bob: On your results, if a player hit a drag shot (low CB hit) where the CB rolled forward after contact with the OB, were you counting that as draw or follow? And if the CB stopped dead after OB contact, were you counting as a draw shot or center/stun shot?

I tried to figure out how they hit the ball by where I would have to hit it to get the same result.

 

[Cornerman]

Van Eck's chart is interesting, even without the inside or outside detail. You mentioned that he charted over 15 matches that way. Is the Archer/Reyes match the only one you have?

Bob's numbers in post #1 show 52% (90 of 172) of the shots he counted were hit inside or outside. Van Eck's chart shows that, for balls pocketed, the percentages hit left or right of center were 56% (71 of 127) for Archer and 55% (59 of 108) for Reyes. So pretty consistent off-center results for all 3!

 

[ShootingArts]

One thing that has to be factored in, what spin did the shooter position for? Most of the shots a pro takes are during a run. Since he or she shot the last shot they have choice of position for the current one.

I was a speed and angles kind of guy when I played over sixty hours a week. Obviously playing that many hours I stayed tuned to use side spin too. That not being my choice of how to play, I normally shot for angles to flow from shot to shot and rarely used more than slight sidespin.

Sidespin substantially increased my chances of having issues. Even today, heavy sidespin seems to increase chances of issues for even the best in the game. That should cause some reflection for anyone, especially anyone that doesn't have a 750+ Fargo.

Hu

 

[maha]

i shoot almost all(not all) my cut shots with center ball unless i need english to get position.

why wouldnt you. side english on any shot adds another layer of difficulty.

except for when i will have push/throw.

 

[straightline]

i shoot almost all(not all) my cut shots with center ball unless i need english to get position.

why wouldnt you. side english on any shot adds another layer of difficulty.

except for when i will have push/throw.

Cinching spin is a reliable concession to changing conditions.

 

[gregcantrall]

Stop shot (low spin hit point, vertical centerline). But that's for a perfectly straight shot with BIH. No one that can run a rack hardly ever plays a cut angle with zero spin.

There are degrees of cut angles and degrees of spin. A gentle spin on straight in changes the path by a degree. maybe
Additional variable complicates the equation. Even the GOAT aren't 100 per cent.

 

[AtLarge]

Thanks, Freddie. So you posted Van Eck's counts from 3 matches:

1. Archer vs. Deuel at the 2006 US Open 9-Ball;​

2. Sigel vs. Archer at the 1993 US Open 9-Ball; and​

3. The last part of the Reyes vs. Strickland race to 120 in Hong Kong in Nov. 1996 (Van Eck's page says 1997)​

​

The off-center counts from those are:

1. Archer 52% (28 of 54) and Deuel 61% (38 of 62)​

2. Sigel 58% (44 of 76) and Archer 58% (42 of 73)​

3. Reyes 58% (87 of 151) and Strickland 59% (30 of 51)​

Total for all three matches -- 57.6% (269 of 467)​

​

And if we also add in the results from Jewett and Van Eck in post #45, we have aggregate results from 5 different matches (one being only part of a match) of 56% (489 of 874) of the shots being hit off the vertical axis.

So this result would seem to be counter to what two groups of players may believe:

- those who think pros play the majority of their shots on the vertical axis and​

- those who think pros use side spin on nearly all (80-90+%) of their shots.​

 

[straightline]

Spinning the ball is like using the steering wheel to park your car. Even Grandma will use as much lock as it takes to get it done.
There are treacherous transitional zones to consider as well. For example:
Player is breaking well getting out on zombie, comes up on a perfect center ball zig zag - oops, hangs it.
It's a matter of familiarity.

 

[Pelzer Pete]

What kind of spins do players usually use? You may have heard that 80% of shots should be played on the vertical axis, but what do players actually do?

I think there may have been a thread like this before but I couldn't find it.

To give an example, I watched a nine ball match between Buddy Hall and Rodney Morris from 1996 and tried to count the time each of nine spins was used. Here is my somewhat subjective result from that match. I tried to figure out how they hit the cue ball from what it did off the object ball and off any rail.

Types of spin​	Draw​	Center/Stun​	Follow​
Outside​	47​	11​	21​
Center​	33​	14​	35​
Inside​	0​	0​	11​

There were 14 shots that were kicks or jumps that I did not count. I also didn't count break shots.

Conclusions: Inside spin was rare. Draw was more common than follow and center/stun was a distant third. Most shots used side spin by a small margin.

The two players are from a previous generation. Hall in particular has been noted as playing a relatively simple game. Maybe the new crop uses spin differently.

14.1 breakshots use spin often.

Overhitting shots with spin produces observable effects, controlled power shots with spin take longer to see the magic of physics.

Playing 14.1 breakshots is training for carom or 3 Cushion or 4ball. The spin in a 14.1 breakshot is at the upper limits of the miscue while 3 cushion is on the low end and the not easy to see measures of physics.

The use of 3 cushion spin vs pocket billiards spin is worth noting.

Carom has many masse shots and it has many shots that use the rails.

Carom would be the ultimate way to study spin for cue sports.

I have been working on a spin system for carom, it is a slow development. This discussion is appreciated.

I watched Buddy play years ago when he was on tour. As far as I can tell, he plays mostly draw English.

 

[justnum]

I watched Buddy play years ago when he was on tour. As far as I can tell, he plays mostly draw English.

I sat through several 14.1 matches at unsanctioned world events.

Pre Hohmann the breakshot was a mild power hit, more of a finesse for cue position or gentle rack breaking.

Mika and Hohmann played the more powerful break in competition.

It is gently off center and never dead center and still generate huge spin. I would classify it as a highly precise slightly off center power stroke.

Older players used a firm stroke. The spin on the cue ball develops its final path line early.

Newer players play the power stroke, more follow through to generate the huge spin on the cueball.

 

[straightline]

I watched Buddy play years ago when he was on tour. As far as I can tell, he plays mostly draw English.

If the outs and leaves are such that a player can go shortest distance between shots, player may choose to do so. Snooker players do it almost by habit; probably to keep the routes and landings in their field of vision. Knowing little else about Buddy Hall, I'd think he's favor moving the ball toward center table in the most convenient fashion.
And also, pro tournaments and the fresh conditions favor drawing the ball and minimizing the cushion contacts.