State Open Tournaments?

BilliardsAbout said:
I'm not disputing your points; you've raised some valid considerations. However, consider this: if we increase the number of regionals from 4 to 8, the state championship could offer over $50,000 in cash payouts even before adding any additional funds. Additionally, we could hold a rated tournament by making the open events invitational, restricting them to specific Fargo ratings.
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No offense, it sounds great on paper. Putting it on is a whole other deal. Good luck with your venture(s).
BilliardsAbout said:
We have thousands of dollars in sponsor money to enhance regional and state tournaments once final decisions on payouts are made. We have excellent poolrooms eager to host, sponsorship from pool equipment companies, experienced referees, and veteran tournament directors. Additionally, some of us are prepared to contribute with trick shot exhibitions and teaching seminars during the championships. We also have budgeted funds for websites, posters, trophies, and other promotional materials.

To determine whether to proceed with these enhanced tournaments or revert to regular tournaments with added cash prizes, our group needs to thoroughly discuss the issues. Please keep this conversation going, as your insights are invaluable.

Thank you.
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Who is this 'we' you refer to? Who is financing it? This just random dreaming? Sounds like what you're proposing is a tour made up of state opens. Could work but the planning/running/financing of a tour is not small potatoes. Just ask anyone that's ever run a regional tour like Zuglan, Oscar or Tony Robles. Its a full-time gig that requires sponsorship to make it go.
 
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garczar said:
No offense, it sounds great on paper. Putting it on is a whole other deal. Good luck with your venture(s).

Who is this 'we' you refer to? Who is financing it? This just random dreaming?
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I've formed a group with friends, including investors, individuals willing to contribute cash for sponsor advertising, fellow teachers and exhibitors, and room owners. Our playing pros and other friends can get thousands of dollars in cues and equipment, to add to the mix.

The numbers look promising on my end, and I'm pleased they do on yours as well. Within our group, we're considering whether open events are still feasible and if we can secure advance sign-ups for regionals, not just at the door, to ensure their viability and substantial state prizes.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
I've formed a group with friends, including investors, individuals willing to contribute cash for sponsor advertising, fellow teachers and exhibitors, and room owners. Our playing pros and other friends can get thousands of dollars in cues and equipment, to add to the mix.

The numbers look promising on my end, and I'm pleased they do on yours as well. Within our group, we're considering whether open events are still feasible and if we can secure advance sign-ups for regionals, not just at the door, to ensure their viability and substantial state prizes.
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Good luck and i mean it. I still think you're gonna be seriously swimming upstream. In my part of the country open events are pretty scarce to say the least. Rated events pull 4-5x the entries.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
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How might you feel about state regional opens that feed state championship invitationals, with entry fees split between regional and championship tournaments?

For example, a $200 entry fee grants you entry to one of the four regional tournaments (North, South, East, or West) in your state, each limited to 64 players. The top 8 players from each regional advance, entry fee free, to your state's championship, featuring 32 players.

Half of the entry fee ($100) goes into the regional tournament's prize pool, along with any additional funds. The remaining $100 contributes to the state championship's prize pool, making it the fifth and final tournament of the season. For instance, with 64 entrants in each regional, there would be $6,400 in cash prizes for each of the four regionals, and $25,600 put aside for the state championship.

In addition to the cash prizes, there would be sizable and attractive trophies for the top places in the state championship.

Our group is considering adding sponsorship money to state regionals/championships. We are evaluating different race and elimination formats and considering limiting entrants by Fargo rating, or charging higher entry fees for higher-rated Fargo players.

What are your thoughts on this format?

Thank you!
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I love this idea. New York used to have a handicapped State Tournament, which was a massive face palm for me, as it remove the credence and prestige of being a true "State Champion".
 
This thread didn't really get derailed, but nobody tries to stop handicapped tournaments here or convince anybody to stop playing in those.

I think those tiered open tournaments are a great idea, something what is missing in the US. They would fill a void.
 
garczar said:
Wrong. Open events kill themselves. People want to have some sort of chance. Just being dead-money hogs led to slaughter gets old fast.
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Exactly. In my area, you hear all the 625 plus players complaining about capped tournaments and that everything should be open. Two years ago, there was an open event along side a 675 and under. The open had top pros: Gorst, SVB, Alex, Gomez, Morra and more. All those players complaining about capped tournaments signed up for the 675 and under. Only a couple stepped up for the open division. Regardless of rating, all players want events that they are favored in and will skip the others.
 
rharm said:
Exactly. In my area, you hear all the 625 plus players complaining about capped tournaments and that everything should be open. Two years ago, there was an open event along side a 675 and under. The open had top pros: Gorst, SVB, Alex, Gomez, Morra and more. All those players complaining about capped tournaments signed up for the 675 and under. Only a couple stepped up for the open division. Regardless of rating, all players want events that they are favored in and will skip the others.
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Not so much 'favored' but to have some chance of finishing decent. No one i know gets in FR events feeling that they're some sort of lock, they enter knowing they have a shot at placing well. The old "Well, you have to get beat a lot to get better" may be true to a point but most players are not full-timers and being nothing but dead-money tourn. after tourn. gets old quick.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
We are evaluating different race and elimination formats and considering limiting entrants by Fargo rating or charging higher entry fees for higher-rated Fargo players.

What are your thoughts on this format?

Thank you!
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I think this is a great idea. Handicapping by the entry fee isn't a big incentive for a sandbagger. Handicap by games on the wire and a sandbagger could get swindle his/her way into thousands. Handicapping by variable entry fees might net them a few hundred (a lot less incentive). I personally believe there's a lot of players out there that have no realistic chance of cashing but really enjoy playing. By lowering their entry fee, more of these players will play and enjoy themselves, and the top guys get more money in the pool. Win-Win from what I can see.
 
garczar said:
Good luck and i mean it. I still think you're gonna be seriously swimming upstream. In my part of the country open events are pretty scarce to say the least. Rated events pull 4-5x the entries.
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Yes, we can do a hybrid, unless you see a rated and an invitational (or open) as conflicting...
 
garczar said:
Not so much 'favored' but to have some chance of finishing decent. No one i know gets in FR events feeling that they're some sort of lock, they enter knowing they have a shot at placing well. The old "Well, you have to get beat a lot to get better" may be true to a point but most players are not full-timers and being nothing but dead-money tourn. after tourn. gets old quick.
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Man this is a weak generation... Sissies everywhere.

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I do think for a true annual state championships, you would not need to tier entry fee's. You could have it a flat $100 for everyone, as the prestige of playing in the state championships should be enough to draw a decent turnout. You could seed the top 16 or 32 based off on Fargo, so the top players shouldn't meet each other too early in the tournament. I would also have a ring for the winner on top of the prize money, as that would be a pretty cool thing to show off. :)
I live in Florida and would enter the tournament, even though I would have zero chance of winning, but to say I finished 33-48 in the Florida State Championships would be a nice thing to say (not that I would finish that high...).
Fighting it out alongside the likes of Meglino, Hall, Crosby, Sheerman, etc would give it far more meaning than capping it at a certain Fargo rate.
 
RafaReyes said:
Yes, lots of handicapped tournaments... Killing open events.

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Thats because your "open" players that are at the lower end of open are going to look for a capped tournament where they are the big fish. Most of the opens in this area don't fill well unless its a high payout, I think most players would rather play in a capped tournament, if you wanna call that handicapped knock yourself out.
 
RafaReyes said:
Man this is a weak generation... Sissies everywhere.

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Says the keyboard warrior from his moms basement. If I wasnt a responsible home owning adult who raised a couple of kids, started and continue to run a business and have another very time consuming and expensive hobby I probably could have spent my youth at a pool table and became a very strong player but not everyone chooses to live that way.

The thing about it is that I doubt that handicapped tournaments draw that many players away from open tournaments in the first place. The majority of handicapped tournaments are for Fargo rated players under 600, most guys at that skill level just aren't going to enter open tournaments in the first place. It sounds to me that maybe with the rise of capped tournaments maybe you have become the dead meat in open tournaments.
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
State open
Must be a resident
Every state has a champion
50 player final in Nashville or some central place.
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100 times as many players in CA and NY as Vermont.

At least for the first time you have to have a competent TD at each event or you will have a number of disasters and those will poison your efforts. Room owners are mostly as stupid as stumps when it comes to running tournaments.

If anyone really wants to do this, they should talk to people who have run other qualifiers or the Texas Express people.

I'll guess that fewer than 15 states will participate the first year unless you do a great deal of promotion with a lot of travel and personal contact.

Sorry if this sounds negative but the first year has to be done right or it all goes down the drain.
 
rharm said:
It's not an open event if you're limiting it to players 700 and under. Stronger players don't want open tournaments, they want capped tournaments where they are the top players.
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I disagree. I guess it depends on your definition of "stronger players". I want open tournaments all day every day.
 
Bob Jewett said:
100 times as many players in CA and NY as Vermont.

At least for the first time you have to have a competent TD at each event or you will have a number of disasters and those will poison your efforts. Room owners are mostly as stupid as stumps when it comes to running tournaments.

If anyone really wants to do this, they should talk to people who have run other qualifiers or the Texas Express people.

I'll guess that fewer than 15 states will participate the first year unless you do a great deal of promotion with a lot of travel and personal contact.

Sorry if this sounds negative but the first year has to be done right or it all goes down the drain.
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It doesn't sound negative to me; it sounds like wise advice. Thank you.

I'm open to any suggestions you have on format, handicapping, and more.
 
fastone371 said:
Says the keyboard warrior from his moms basement. If I wasnt a responsible home owning adult who raised a couple of kids, started and continue to run a business and have another very time consuming and expensive hobby I probably could have spent my youth at a pool table and became a very strong player but not everyone chooses to live that way.

The thing about it is that I doubt that handicapped tournaments draw that many players away from open tournaments in the first place. The majority of handicapped tournaments are for Fargo rated players under 600, most guys at that skill level just aren't going to enter open tournaments in the first place. It sounds to me that maybe with the rise of capped tournaments maybe you have become the dead meat in open tournaments.
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What's happened over the last 30odd yrs. is people woke up and got tired of being nothing but donators in open events. Looks to me like the 'sissies' of today are those players that refuse(or say they refuse) to play in a rated event because they no longer have the stone nuts going in. The mere thought they may have to play a lesser player with a hd'cap scares them off.
 
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