Everyone can look. But only a few can see.

jjohnson said:
"I think I'll have the special tonight."
"Oh, excellent choice, sir. Tonight's special is crow. How would you like that cooked, sir."
"Let's leave that up to the cook."
"You are the adventurous type. The cook just loves a challenge."
Click to expand...
You don't have to eat crow. Many have claimed they SEE the secret...

Some even SEE the enter key used occasionally.
 
jjohnson said:
I hope the other forum members have been reading what some of your "friends" on this board have been saying: where they have been coming from. Do you still think they are good guys? What help have they offered in this thread?

Check it out...

I know it has only been at most just a day since I asked if anyone could or cared to tell us how they identify/locate the cue ball/object ball contact point. Probably most of you have not even had an opportunity to catch up with this thread so I understand. Nevertheless, I am going to answer VVP: "My interest is how do you identify that micro-dot even at an amateur level?"

I can't wait for any of you know-it-alls to pooh pooh what I am about to explain saying, "of course, everyone already knew that," or "it's all BS," etc. Just try it. Then offer some rock solid proof you are right. Just try.

Hold on. I'll get to it in just a moment.

I did not mean to mislead anyone by implying that my development of Ultimate SEEING and Execution just emerged from the beginning of this thread. What came together starting at the beginning of this thread is the result of at least 10 years of recent continuous serious thinking about the essence of pool. I probably have more than a thousand audio clips I recorded myself of my own observations and conclusions about pool that I've come up with. Watched some good video lessons and pro matches. Spent many hours banging my head against the wall practicing pool. Read a few books. Etc.

Had one more thing to say but, thankfully, I forgot. Now on with the show.

The following could be considered a promo-tease. Anyway...

Oh, I remember: the specific technique/tool I am about to describe is only about 30% of the full specific technique/tool, in other words, I am about to describe only the beginning of this specific technique/tool, a partial description. It will give you an idea of the possibilities, and a tease at that.

This is the only proviso: I have been disappointed before. On occasion I have come up with something entirely on my own only to find out later that someone else had already thought of it. Quite a disappointment. Hope this doesn't happen here. I am sure if it does someone here will let us know. But they will have to prove it. I believe what follows is original.

Here goes: Visualize the object ball. Ideally a perfect sphere 2.25" in diameter. Now visualize the thinnest horizontal plane that slices precisely through the center of the object ball. Let's call the line that this plane makes with the outer edge of the object ball the equator. Now, the cue ball has the same dimensions as the object ball. Both balls rest on the horizontal table top. So whenever the cue ball makes contact with the object ball, the contact point always lies somewhere along the equator. At contact, the center of the cue ball is always 2.25" from the center of the object ball. And the center of the cue ball is always 1.125" from the contact point. This is the set up. What follows never gets any more complicated than this.

Visualize the object ball as the face of a clock. 12 noon, 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock, etc. Let's say you want to cut the object ball to the left by 30 degrees. Find the 1 o'clock position on the edge of the object ball. Now visualize dropping a vertical line straight down from the 1 o'clock position. Where this line intersects the object ball equator is the contact point.

Let's say you want to cut the object ball to the left by 60 degrees. Find the 2 o'clock position on the edge of the object ball. Now visualize dropping a vertical line straight down from the 2 o'clock position. Where this line intersects the object ball equator is the contact point.

From 12 noon to 3 PM covers 90 degrees.

So, VVP, do you now understand? Is it clear enough for you? Piece of cake, right?

Here is my previous post above in this thread asking for participation:

[The general consensus in this thread is that its forum members believe in sharing their pool knowledge and techniques to help other players.
Here is a simple pool technique related question but a very important one.
Imagine an object ball and cue ball anywhere on the table.
You have decided which pocket you want to make the object ball in.
Question: how do you determine the exact contact point on the object ball where the cue ball and object ball meet to make the shot?
Constraints: the cue ball and object ball well off any rails. cue ball center ball hit with no english.
Looking for your simplest explanation for precise determination of any object ball's contact point with any cue ball.
Thank you, in advance.]
Click to expand...
Are the balls dirty, visualized or something between those states?

Does that matter?

Enter key...ahhh.
 
VVP said:
What about plain balls without even numbers as FXBilliards suggests you should use for practice?
Click to expand...
Then you look at the balls themselves. Remember the main concern is to determine the stick angle, not atom smashing. As such you see eclipses and again overlap sections that will all precisely clue you to where the stroke strokes.

Freeze two cueballs anywhere on the table.
Make note of where they point.
Walk around this double object and test your visualization against the known points. IOW make note of where the frozen balls appear to line up vs the known alignment. Train your eyes to "see" lol.


Regardless, you can still visualize contact points and tangents.
 
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bbb said:
this diagram doesnt mention a clock but you can "see" the info
View attachment 774226
Click to expand...
I was completely unaware of the existence of this diagram. Was there any additional explanatory text. Tell us the details where you found it and any other information you have.

I note that you stated that there was no mention of a "clock." Without utilizing this precise clock reference as I explained it, although the "info" is presented, at most, that is all it does. Agreed, it does present similar significant details and relationships. In this case, that is still quite a lot.

Note that from 12 Noon to 3 PM is not only 90 degrees. It is also 15 minutes and even more precisely, 900 seconds. Being able to reference degrees or time on the outer edge of the object ball allows for maximum possible precision in using the technique/tool I describe. In time, practicing using this technique/tool will evolve into feel. A feel easily and directly acquired using this clock method of determining the precise contact point. A feel that won't take 1000 repetitive practice shots.

If one were left with only the diagram above, yes, it is intriguing, more than that even. But to my mind, it suggests one would have to memorize the specific lines, angles and points and their relationships depicted to make use of them. There is no deeper exploration of the fundamental concept. What to do if the angles desired are not exactly as depicted? Obviously, you are only left with the option of making intuitive estimations. In other words, the diagram alone is "piecemeal." I hope I'm making sense.

The description I explain of how to determine the exact contact point can account for any and all contact points to achieve any cut angle. You do not have to memorize any specific lines, angles and points. You are free to clock reference any point on the outer edge of the object ball.

Our understanding can not only be determined by what we learn but also by how we learn. In this case, did you learn by the diagram first then by my explanation. Or did you learn from my explanation then by the diagram. Is there any concern to judge whether which or whose idea deserves more credibility and therefore merit? Remember, I posted this technique/tool as a "promo-tease."

I don't mean to be repetitive. Maybe I am splitting hairs?

Nevertheless, it is good to see that no one has disputed anything I described/explained/claimed regarding precisely determining any contact point. And no one has described a simpler more easily understood and versatile method as of yet.

Although it is not exactly the major slam dunk I had hoped for. I'll take a swish any day.

There is no question that there is information in this diagram that coincides with what I described/explained/claimed.
 
VVP said:
I think the micro-dot on the equator has to be adjusted for things like speed, deflection, the various type of throws, etc. and that's where the practice and muscle memory comes in. I have seen people saying that the contact point never changes regardless of the cut-angle, speed, etc. and I don't believe this is correct ... I can be wrong.
Click to expand...
You are not wrong. If the contact point remains the same you may need to adjust cue ball hit and stroke.
VVP said:
Anyway, here is a bit more about the question I asked about what Gorst is looking at when he stands behind the line connecting the OB and the pocket. I heard in a commentary that Allison Fisher said that he is looking at where the OB should enter the pocket, so basically marking the pocket per my interpretation of what she said. I saw Gorst at a tournament and asked him and initially he said that he is looking at the pocket then he said no, no I am looking at the spot on the OB. I then asked him how he remembers the spot because often he does not not keep fixated on the OB while walking back to the CB position and he smiled and said "I know." Maybe he has the ability to calculate the cut angle which us amateur has no idea about doing.
Click to expand...
Gorst is maybe like Shane, and like Efren and Earl once were. Mere mortals cannot even comprehend. Maybe they have become Enlightened Masters like Yoda.
 
Ultimate SEEING and Execution can teach you how to:

precisely determine the shot angle to pocket the object ball
visualize the perfect ghost ball
make the perfect cue ball hit.

Did my "promo-tease" lessen or remove any doubt or at least perhaps suggest that keeping an open mind would be the wise thing to do regarding US&E?

I don't doubt me. No one else should, at the least, doubt me. Know that I won't blame you or hold it against you if you do not believe me, yet, because only seeing is believing, most of the time.
 
You are aware, on some level, that this subject has been examined over the years by many, many, many people, no?

This one from my library, by Todd Leveck, weighs in at 574 pages. It is just one of many tomes on the subject.

Lou Figueroa
 

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@jjohnson
its late for me so i have a quick response and will try to answer some of your post above tomorrow if i can
your "promo -tease" is just that
alot of promises and alot of self grandiose verbiage
but no way to know if what you will ultimately explain will really be of use
as of now you are becoming more and more like a carnival huckster
with alot of smoke and mirrors
 
lfigueroa said:
You are aware, on some level, that this subject has been examined over the years by many, many, many people, no?

This one from my library, by Todd Leveck, weighs in at 574 pages. It is just one of many tomes on the subject.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
No, I am not aware of this "tome."

How many others in this forum are?

Pool is not so complicated as to warrant 574 pages. Not even close. My description only took at most 3 short paragraphs. Probably could have deleted the enter key returns for spacing and just had 1 short single paragraph. What more could you possibly need to nail down the contact point once you know the angle you seek.

I pity you if you actually took the time to suffer reading through it.

Waving this "tome" as if it contains all the secrets of pool is not proof. You tell us what he says by quoting from his tome on pool about locating the precise contact point once the angle has been decided upon. It most certainly must be clearly simply explained somewhere within 574 pages. If you don't want to make the effort I don't blame you. I sure as hell wouldn't.

Not only do I pity you having to have read through it, I pity Shane, Joshua, Efren, Earl, and all the other pros carrying around such a heavy tome in their brains. It must all be in there. They must know it all. How can they even have the strength left to stroke the cue.
 
bbb said:
@jjohnson
its late for me so i have a quick response and will try to answer some of your post above tomorrow if i can
your "promo -tease" is just that
alot of promises and alot of self grandiose verbiage
but no way to know if what you will ultimately explain will really be of use
as of now you are becoming more and more like a carnival huckster
with alot of smoke and mirrors
Click to expand...
In my explanation of how to accurately and simply determine the precise contact point once having decided the cut angle, where is the smoke and mirrors?

Why is this not ultimately of any use?

This is a technique/tool that will be further expounded upon in US&E.

What I described in this "promo-tease" has nothing to do with Ultimate SEEING. This SEEING is a technique of using your natural vision as a tool or instrument. You can clearly see that I did not discuss any such thing above.

Why all the vitriol?

If you have nothing intelligent to share, maybe you should just take a time out and give it a rest.
 
lfigueroa said:
You are aware, on some level, that this subject has been examined over the years by many, many, many people, no?

This one from my library, by Todd Leveck, weighs in at 574 pages. It is just one of many tomes on the subject.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
Is that actually you in your profile picture? Were you a regular tournament player at Hard Times Bellflower? I think I only entered in one or at most 2 of those tournaments. I actually remember maybe playing you in one once. It was on the other side of the wall, not on the pro tables. You won the match, of course. I couldn't play a lick. But you did comment saying, "That was a good run out." You may not believe this or understand that I had completely blacked out during that run. When you said that, I thought about it and simply could not remember any of it. To this day I cannot make heads of tails of it. When I make this promo video you may recognize me. I've been through a lot as most of us have getting older. Anyway, I'll look forward to meeting you again. You always struck me as being a really nice guy.
 
What I had hoped to do with this "promo-tease" that explains how to simply and accurately locate the object ball contact point once the cut angle has been decided upon, was to indicate the degree of insight that can be expect to be found throughout the upcoming US&E video. I had hoped to begin generating ever so slight a bizz, not even considering/hoping for a bigger buzz, just a mere tingle of anticipation.

Was only just informed that someone had little more than pointed out much of the concept relationships but with little fanfare. Seemingly having gotten lost in the cracks.

How many of you imagined or conceived of, or were ever made aware of this technique/tool and if so, how many of you were ever taught how to do it and use it effectively?
 
The best example is buried at AZ somewhere. Some guy in an aiming discussion chimed in:
[my words]
Lay the tip of your stick on the mid point between the rock and the OB.
Point from there to the contact point.
Roll the stick parallel until it crosses directly over center ball.

That's it. At that point you are looking at the shot as it should be shot. No arc seconds, Higgs bosons -
nuthin.
 
All I have talked about here with any specificity is how to determine visually the precise object ball contact point once the cut angle has been decided.

But let's say, if I understand correctly, you are changing the subject and you are attempting to describe an aiming system. Is this correct?

If so, I would like to hear from any novice pool players, or someone who has been playing for a while and having problems aiming shots, who are following this thread, if this "explanation" does it for you? Do you now have a clear enough idea/picture of what the hell they are describing and you are now going to the local pool hall and paying for table time so you can practice this "advice" and getting positive results? I have an idea, take them on as your instructor to boot and pay for lessons as well. I'm sure you will be shooting the eyes out of the balls in no time. Not.

Come on, please. Make a sincere effort to explain clearly whatever it is you want to communicate. Unless you want to communicate befuddlement. If so, you have done well. But this is not sharing or helping. And it is wasting people's time. That is not nice.
 
I don't think there's any mystery to determining the contact point. It's nearly a concept that only exists for a fraction of an instant. It won't light up for you, reveal no holographic symmetry, no matter what you look at. Besides. the idea of that point is so you can arrive at shooting the shot.

So far the primary value in these connedversations is for the person selling the arc seconds.
 
The theory and study and practice of modern calculus may take a 574 page tome but no, not pool. Imagining many more tomes on the subject of pool, as well? And imagining someone/anyone reading/studying these many tomes? Clearly sounds like someone has way too much time on their hands. Makes me grin with a big smile imagining Cole in a cave fiercely reading pool tome after pool tome by dim flickering candle light.

All kidding aside, I am being accused of having a swollen head and grandiose imaginings?

Learning all there is to learn about pool and what it is to be a pool master yet never becoming one is somehow a noble endeavor and some sort of ticket to salvation? Doing your part, being on the "inside," sitting smugly on the secrets of pool, only divulging pool truths to the chosen few, protecting the faithful as your mission? Endlessly jerking around the unwashed?

Talk about the most incredible mass self delusion...

I knew the son of a subsequent owner of Fremont Family Billiards. He couldn't believe why so many people thought Cole was just the greatest. Why? he mused. Just because Cole can shoot good pool?

I certainly think he had an excellent point.

As difficult as living can be, I support everyone's niche that helps them get through it, even perhaps getting some pleasure from it, as long as there is no violence involved. If it lights your board to rant against me in this forum, I support you.

You certainly don't realize it but it has motivated me. Just last night I figured out how to determine with exquisite simplicity and precision how to determine the cut angle of any shot. It is marvelous. This forum, your responses/comments, and my OP/comments/responses have created a synergy for progress. I am most grateful.

This last advancement pretty much seals the deal. There may be some cleaning up to do but US&E is developed completely such that I just need to take, I would think, no more than a month to produce a crude promo video. I read very recently that it is better to put out a crude video filled with content that you can always redo later rather than wait to produce an expensive video that would take much longer to produce.

So, you know or should know that once you have decided your object ball and pocket, and the cue ball path and spot position, these parameters automatically allow you to determine precisely everything else you will need to know to make the shot. It begins by telling you the cue ball strike point and the shot cut angle. Once you know the cue ball strike point and the cut angle you can determine the object ball contact point. Once you know the object ball contact point you can determine the ghost ball... At the end of this process you make all your final adjustments for precision: perfection.

This will be your dilemma:
You can't see what I'm doing but you know I'm doing something.

Unfortunately, even for some of you, even after I tell you and show you, you will just not get it because you do not have the mind for it.
 
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