Cue tip hardness chart UPDATED

One of guy who plays pool frequently in our community is also a person who replaces tips for folks.

His inventory of replacement tip is 25 - 30 choices.

He only uses tips that are consistent hardness, and last well.

Less headaches.
 
most use Shore 'A'. If using using 'D' you will get a lower #. Shore A is meant for softer/pliable materials where D is meant for harder stuff. Take a Triangle as an example, A rating is around 80 where D is 74. Depends on what scale u use.
Thanks love to learn something new.

Those charts above are still confusing though. The second by pool dog states that it is Shore ‘A’ so I thought the first would have to be a ‘D’ but it has lower scores not higher and pooldog has the Triangle at 91?
 
The same tip measured with Shore D will read lower than A. On D scale, a super soft will be around 60, soft mid 60’s, medium low 70’s and Hard 75 and up. Most break tips are in the 80 range. Also, there is no direct conversion from A to D.
 
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The 2 tips hardness charts don’t really match up.
Who is measuring the tip hardness ?
I put the Navigator Automatic on my house cues. They play great
Navigator didn’t make the tip hardness list but they publish there own hardness chart.

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A cue repairman I know does a hardness test on each tip he buys. He found serious variations across one box. He sorts them into his own bins.

The follow on problem is that players have no idea what hardness they are using.
 
most use Shore 'A'. If using using 'D' you will get a lower #. Shore A is meant for softer/pliable materials where D is meant for harder stuff. Take a Triangle as an example, A rating is around 80 where D is 74. Depends on what scale u use.
Shore is a reliable unit-less measurement to compare relative hardnesses to each other. It’s accurate and reliable. The different scales for Shore are all reliable and is globally accepted across many industries manufacturing damn near everything. Your morning cereal has a Shore rating of some sort-not A or D. 😃

So a couple years ago I fell into a biz-acrylics that was practice for bigger better biz ideas. But I needed to learn a lot, I’m still learning. Part of this ended up being measuring the hardness of the materials I’m having made.

That opened up a new chapter in my life going down a rabbit hole I knew very little about. Sure I had 9 semesters of Chem before they threw me out of school, science and measurements aren’t new to me. But Shore hardness and the related measurement equipment was new.

I own that equipment now, nothing $800 wouldn’t solve. I got good stuff-ofc there’s better and maybe someday.

Anyways back to tips. I had my Shore D durometer and after a few days, it occurred to me to try it on a tip. It’s some layered Japanese tip. It came in at 54. Which was interesting. I thought it would be too soft and D was the wrong idea. I only tried the one tip(new not on a cue).

For a couple days I thought I had reinvented the wheel until I gave it more thought. No chance I’m the first guy to think of this, there are way too many smart guys out there.

So I pondered more.

Here’s the problem I have with Shore testing tips. Yes it’s a great measurement for tips when they are new. And we can quantify the relative hardness between all new tips. Water Buffalo will be harder than Elk Masters and ofc Triangle tips will be perfect. We can all agree? lol What’s new? Don’t we always agree on everything on AZB?

So back to the problem. A tip is only new once. Until it’s installed. Then it becomes a used tip after the first shot and has a pretty short life(if you are playing enough pool).

What I’ve noticed is tips tend to get hard and glaze over. A scuffer takes care of the glaze easy enough. The problem I personally have experienced over the decades and a zillion tips is they tend to get harder with use. For me, maybe it’s how I hit the ball, chalk, what ever variables are in play-when I use layered tips they get harder and harder until they turn into rocks. Seems like the adhesive and leather layers kinda merge into a super hard substance. Or the dead opposite they un laminate and are ½” tall and spongy.

Ultra skins seem to be the best layered tip to solve that problem. But that’s another conversation

My point is as a tip is used it hardens up most of the time. After a few weeks they seem to hit a sweet spot for me and then wear out.

What would be interesting is to test a tip, install it and track how many hours of use it gets and retest it. For example every 30 hours of use or 50. Just a consistent number. After a few tips it would be interesting to see the graph on what’s happening with the hardness of that particular tip.

The hardness over the life span of a tip is what I’m getting at. I’d bet we would see some tips get considerably harder and see some stay closer to their “at new” measurement. Like a Triangle is likely to do(shameless unsponsored plug).

This is a fun topic for me. Quantifying organic materials is an almost impossible pursuit. But it’s sure fun to try. I’ve had this conversation with Tony at Black Boar many times. Metals are predictable and boring lol-so says the grand master.

Ok Sunday writing practice is over. I almost started this as a topic a few weeks ago. Glad I didn’t.

If I was still playing I’d do this test on my tips for a year or 2 as the results are super interesting. Problem is at the rate I’m playing I’d need about 4-5 years per tip. Wouldn’t be much data.

Fatboy🤓🤓
 
Shore is a reliable unit-less measurement to compare relative hardnesses to each other. It’s accurate and reliable. The different scales for Shore are all reliable and is globally accepted across many industries manufacturing damn near everything. Your morning cereal has a Shore rating of some sort-not A or D. 😃

So a couple years ago I fell into a biz-acrylics that was practice for bigger better biz ideas. But I needed to learn a lot, I’m still learning. Part of this ended up being measuring the hardness of the materials I’m having made.

That opened up a new chapter in my life going down a rabbit hole I knew very little about. Sure I had 9 semesters of Chem before they threw me out of school, science and measurements aren’t new to me. But Shore hardness and the related measurement equipment was new.

I own that equipment now, nothing $800 wouldn’t solve. I got good stuff-ofc there’s better and maybe someday.

Anyways back to tips. I had my Shore D durometer and after a few days, it occurred to me to try it on a tip. It’s some layered Japanese tip. It came in at 54. Which was interesting. I thought it would be too soft and D was the wrong idea. I only tried the one tip(new not on a cue).

For a couple days I thought I had reinvented the wheel until I gave it more thought. No chance I’m the first guy to think of this, there are way too many smart guys out there.

So I pondered more.

Here’s the problem I have with Shore testing tips. Yes it’s a great measurement for tips when they are new. And we can quantify the relative hardness between all new tips. Water Buffalo will be harder than Elk Masters and ofc Triangle tips will be perfect. We can all agree? lol What’s new? Don’t we always agree on everything on AZB?

So back to the problem. A tip is only new once. Until it’s installed. Then it becomes a used tip after the first shot and has a pretty short life(if you are playing enough pool).

What I’ve noticed is tips tend to get hard and glaze over. A scuffer takes care of the glaze easy enough. The problem I personally have experienced over the decades and a zillion tips is they tend to get harder with use. For me, maybe it’s how I hit the ball, chalk, what ever variables are in play-when I use layered tips they get harder and harder until they turn into rocks. Seems like the adhesive and leather layers kinda merge into a super hard substance. Or the dead opposite they un laminate and are ½” tall and spongy.

Ultra skins seem to be the best layered tip to solve that problem. But that’s another conversation

My point is as a tip is used it hardens up most of the time. After a few weeks they seem to hit a sweet spot for me and then wear out.

What would be interesting is to test a tip, install it and track how many hours of use it gets and retest it. For example every 30 hours of use or 50. Just a consistent number. After a few tips it would be interesting to see the graph on what’s happening with the hardness of that particular tip.

The hardness over the life span of a tip is what I’m getting at. I’d bet we would see some tips get considerably harder and see some stay closer to their “at new” measurement. Like a Triangle is likely to do(shameless unsponsored plug).

This is a fun topic for me. Quantifying organic materials is an almost impossible pursuit. But it’s sure fun to try. I’ve had this conversation with Tony at Black Boar many times. Metals are predictable and boring lol-so says the grand master.

Ok Sunday writing practice is over. I almost started this as a topic a few weeks ago. Glad I didn’t.

If I was still playing I’d do this test on my tips for a year or 2 as the results are super interesting. Problem is at the rate I’m playing I’d need about 4-5 years per tip. Wouldn’t be much data.

Fatboy🤓🤓
But metals are only predictable when not introduced to heat and then quenched. That process can make them harder, softer, brittle, less brittle, spring like, etc. Some metals also "work harden" during forming.:)
 
But metals are only predictable when not introduced to heat and then quenched. That process can make them harder, softer, brittle, less brittle, spring like, etc. Some metals also "work harden" during forming.:)
Forged metals get complicated real fast. Crystallization is the issue correct? Am I on the right track?

I’ve always had an interest in cause/effect things in life. Which is why I liked chemistry, physics was too mathematical.

I like understanding how things work or fit together.

😃😃
 
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