Chohan-Bergman Match

jay helfert said:
Just watched that final game and will share my opinion. First of all Justin tried to give the game to Tony, shooting that wild (and poor) cut shot on the thirteen and scratching two rails in the corner. I thought Tony would grab the cue ball and run out. But no, he stood there looking at the nine ball for a very long time. That's just not like him. He actually looked unsure about it. We (and he) knew he was going to shoot that ball first, cut the ten and get behind the pack. Finally he makes the correct shot and falls perfect for the ten. He doesn't take long to make the ten and go behind the pack, except he hit it too hard and he sends the cue ball past the pack. Surprise, surprise!

Now he has to play off the thirteen ball. He can bank it toward the four on the end rail and stick the cue ball. Only good things can happen that way. He is moving two balls close to his pocket and hiding the cue ball, and he might make the four and continue shooting. Or he could cross bank the thirteen ball toward his hole and once again hide the cue ball behind the pack. But no, after a long, long time walking around and thinking, he shoots a very amateurish two rail bank on the thirteen into the pack and leaves the cue ball on the end rail. That shot accomplished nothing!

At that moment I felt like he forgot how to play T-Rex pool! Maybe the long match had left him a little brain weary. I don't know. I just know I've never seen Tony play so slow and totally non aggressive. That last shot gave JB the upper hand. I think he saw how weak Tony looked and took advantage of it. JB shot a very standard safety and now Tony opted to kick at the thirteen??? Another wasted shot. From there JB was in control and it only took him an inning or two to get his run started with a gutsy bank on the seven ball. After that the run out was pretty standard with only one more bank to close it out.

Just a weird looking final game by Tony. That's all I'm saying.
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I have a tremendous amount of respect for your knowledge and posts, but Bergman doesn’t do much standard stuff. And that last game run was a mile from a standard out. Much respect but respectfully disagree with your characterization of JB’s play in this situation.
 
sjm said:
I support Justin Bergman in any decision he makes regarding participation in pro pool, but can't help wondering ,,,

... from 2014-19, we all knew Bergman as a guy who go very deep in the toughest events but whose weak break tended to leave the major nine-ball titles outside his grasp. I, for one, felt he had the best after the break skills of any American player, SVB included. Justin was, clearly, America's best defensive player, above even Woodward.

The changes Matchroom made in August 2022, with nine on the spot, a break box and 4" pockets have changed the game demonstrably. Winning the majors is no longer about stringing packages and is more about excellence in winning the race to the first good shot than ever before. In my view, this kind of 9ball would have been right up Justin Bergman's alley, playing to his strengths in the moves game. I'll always feel he'd have been at great ease with the current version of pool played in the WNT.
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He won't travel....more than just that.

What it is .... his fatal flaw.
 
white1 said:
I have a tremendous amount of respect for your knowledge and posts, but Bergman doesn’t do much standard stuff. And that last game run was a mile from a standard out. Much respect but respectfully disagree with your characterization of JB’s play in this situation.
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We can agree to disagree. I've seen many great One Pocket run outs by great players and this one by JB was not one of them. He handled it well, to his credit. He opened with a slight backwards bank (not that difficult), a long shot on the nine and then another bank. It was all downhill from there.
 
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lfigueroa said:
The commentators said he came with it from "no where."

To say that out, particularly given the circumstances, was "standard," is BS.

Lou Figueroa
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100% agree - seems like a case of "i don't like that player" therefore I won't give him credit.

There's not a single person on here that saw a road to 9, not 1, and for 40k to boot.

J must have watched a different video
 
jay helfert said:
We can agree to disagree. I've seen many great One Pocket run outs by great players and this one by JB was not one of them. He handled it well, to his credit. He opened with a slight backwards bank (not that difficult), a long shot on the nine and then another bank. It was all downhill from there.
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What I saw was, Tony shot a poor, not well thought out kick on the 13. Then he made a rookie mistake two railing the 3 ball that was almost guaranteed sell out bank. That allowed Justin the opportunity to make a standard bank, nice long shot on the 9, nice bank with perfect control to open up another ball and proceed to run nine balls. definitely not the greatest runout but a perfectly executed one.
 
jay helfert said:
Just watched that final game and will share my opinion. First of all Justin tried to give the game to Tony, shooting that wild (and poor) cut shot on the thirteen and scratching two rails in the corner. I thought Tony would grab the cue ball and run out. But no, he stood there looking at the nine ball for a very long time. That's just not like him. He actually looked unsure about it. We (and he) knew he was going to shoot that ball first, cut the ten and get behind the pack. Finally he makes the correct shot and falls perfect for the ten. He doesn't take long to make the ten and go behind the pack, except he hit it too hard and he sends the cue ball past the pack. Surprise, surprise!

Now he has to play off the thirteen ball. He can bank it toward the four on the end rail and stick the cue ball. Only good things can happen that way. He is moving two balls close to his pocket and hiding the cue ball, and he might make the four and continue shooting. Or he could cross bank the thirteen ball toward his hole and once again hide the cue ball behind the pack. But no, after a long, long time walking around and thinking, he shoots a very amateurish two rail bank on the thirteen into the pack and leaves the cue ball on the end rail. That shot accomplished nothing!

At that moment I felt like he forgot how to play T-Rex pool! Maybe the long match had left him a little brain weary. I don't know. I just know I've never seen Tony play so slow and totally non aggressive. That last shot gave JB the upper hand. I think he saw how weak Tony looked and took advantage of it. JB shot a very standard safety and now Tony opted to kick at the thirteen??? Another wasted shot. From there JB was in control and it only took him an inning or two to get his run started with a gutsy bank on the seven ball. After that the run out was pretty standard with only one more bank to close it out.

Just a weird looking final game by Tony. That's all I'm saying.
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I didn't think JB's attempted cut on the 13 was wild. I'd say it would've been hard to pass up. I think he took the shot for granted and was concentrating more on bringing the cue ball back around 4 or 5 rails towards Tony's pocket. I was shocked he missed that ball (and missed it badly).

I agree with you on what Tony did with that 13 ball though. I bank that ball towards my hole 100% of the time. Not much could go wrong and it keeps the pressure on JB. Actually, to back up a little bit to the shot before where he got that weird angle, Tony should have shot that 9 with a steep angle so the cue goes over on the rail by JB's hole. From there, Tony would have gotten a lot of balls. Even if he missed it, it still would have been a good shot.

Both those guys suck. Where's my cue?
 
jay helfert said:
We can agree to disagree. I've seen many great One Pocket run outs by great players and this one by JB was not one of them. He handled it well, to his credit. He opened with a slight backwards bank (not that difficult), a long shot on the nine and then another bank. It was all downhill from there.
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Can we compromise and say that said run out was "very good"? 🤑
 
jasonlaus said:
100% agree - seems like a case of "i don't like that player" therefore I won't give him credit.

There's not a single person on here that saw a road to 9, not 1, and for 40k to boot.

J must have watched a different video
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Completely agree...Hill Hill...against Tony Chohan..That was a spectacular out. Not sure why anyone would downplay the difficulty in his 9 and out. Not that I would..but you could draw the conclusion Tony crapped himself after Justin missed the opening cut shot. He had an open look and got 1 ball. That was a fantastic match. Congrats to Justin Bergman.
 
jtompilot said:
What I saw was, Tony shot a poor, not well thought out kick on the 13. Then he made a rookie mistake two railing the 3 ball that was almost guaranteed sell out bank. That allowed Justin the opportunity to make a standard bank, nice long shot on the 9, nice bank with perfect control to open up another ball and proceed to run nine balls. definitely not the greatest runout but a perfectly executed one.
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The pilot knows! Too bad there aren't a bunch of videos of Ronnie Allen in his prime. He would often have to run ten and out due to the spot he was giving up. I saw him start runs with two and three rail kick shots, make off angle combinations, backwards bank shots off long and short rails, kicking balls in and breaking balls out to complete his run. And I saw him do things like that for nearly twenty years. One other thing about Ronnie. He was the best ever when it came down to one final ball on the table. He could maneuver that ball in such a way that his opponent was on the defensive every shot and Ronnie was banking at his hole. I rarely if ever saw Ronnie miss a long shot or a severe cut shot to win the game. He was deadly on the money ball, a cold blooded killer under pressure. Ronnie Allen thrived on pressure!

Then there's a man named Efren Reyes. He simply ran out racks from nowhere. He would have cut that thirteen ball in like it had eyes and gone around the table for perfect position! Efren played that close position in One Pocket better than anyone ever. He would nudge balls out of his way and move the cue ball though narrow openings to get to the next shot. The best ever at running balls when they were down table. He could run eight and out when all the balls were inside the head string. He would bank the first ball and get behind the other balls, some within a diamond of the head rail. Never saw anyone else do that like him. Efren has his own twenty year reign on top of the One Pocket world.
 
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jay helfert said:
The pilot knows! Too bad there aren't a bunch of videos of Ronnie Allen in his prime. He would often have to run ten and out due to the spot he was giving up. I saw him start runs with two and three rail kick shots, make off angle combinations, backwards bank shots off long and short rails, kicking balls in and breaking balls out to complete his run out. And I saw him do things like that for nearly twenty years. One other thing about Ronnie. He was the best ever when it came down to one final ball on the table. He could maneuver that ball in such a way that his opponent was on the defensive every shot and Ronnie was banking at his hole. I rarely if ever saw Ronnie miss a long shot or a severe cut shot to win the game. He was deadly on the money ball, a cold blooded killer under pressure. Ronnie Allen thrived on pressure!
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Wish i could have seen it jay…..😢
 
bbb said:
Wish i could have seen it jay…..😢
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I got lucky. Ronnie liked me holding the money. I kept track of all bets and never let a dollar slip away. My cut was usually only 10%, but I loved every minute of it! I got to witness the greatest pool ever played. Ronnie did things in One Pocket that no player today does or even tries. He was so creative the way he used the pack of balls early in the game and how he found shots out of the pack that no one else could see.
 
jay helfert said:
I got lucky. Ronnie liked me holding the money. I kept track of all bets and never let a dollar slip away. My cut was usually only 10%, but I loved every minute of it! I got to witness the greatest pool ever played. Ronnie did things in One Pocket that no player today does or even tries. He was so creative the way he used the pack of balls early in the game and how he found shots out of the pack that no one else could see.
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Are there any videos of Ronnie Allen playing One Pocket?
 
jay helfert said:
The pilot knows! Too bad there aren't a bunch of videos of Ronnie Allen in his prime. He would often have to run ten and out due to the spot he was giving up. I saw him start runs with two and three rail kick shots, make off angle combinations, backwards bank shots off long and short rails, kicking balls in and breaking balls out to complete his run. And I saw him do things like that for nearly twenty years. One other thing about Ronnie. He was the best ever when it came down to one final ball on the table. He could maneuver that ball in such a way that his opponent was on the defensive every shot and Ronnie was banking at his hole. I rarely if ever saw Ronnie miss a long shot or a severe cut shot to win the game. He was deadly on the money ball, a cold blooded killer under pressure. Ronnie Allen thrived on pressure!

Then there's a man named Efren Reyes. He simply ran out racks from nowhere. He would have cut that thirteen ball in like it had eyes and gone around the table for perfect position! Efren played that close position in One Pocket better than any one ever. He would nudge balls out of his way and move the cue ball though narrow openings to get to the next shot. The best ever at running balls when they were down table. He could run eight and out when all the balls were inside the head string. He would bank the first ball and get behind the other balls, some within a diamond of the head rail. Never saw anyone else do that like him. Efren has his own twenty year reign on top of the One Pocket world.
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All that being said, Justin’s out was still pretty damn sporty 🙂
 
nicksaint26 said:
Are there any videos of Ronnie Allen playing One Pocket?
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Only one I know of is the $20,000 One Pocket Challenge match with Danny Diliberto. I still have a few copies left. Just check my website jayhelfert.com. It was an epic match and the last time I saw Ronnie play good. He was in the twilight of his career, maybe a ball or two down from his peak. They played the best of five sets, each set a race to five. And it went the distance!
 
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jay helfert said:
The pilot knows! Too bad there aren't a bunch of videos of Ronnie Allen in his prime. He would often have to run ten and out due to the spot he was giving up. I saw him start runs with two and three rail kick shots, make off angle combinations, backwards bank shots off long and short rails, kicking balls in and breaking balls out to complete his run. And I saw him do things like that for nearly twenty years. One other thing about Ronnie. He was the best ever when it came down to one final ball on the table. He could maneuver that ball in such a way that his opponent was on the defensive every shot and Ronnie was banking at his hole. I rarely if ever saw Ronnie miss a long shot or a severe cut shot to win the game. He was deadly on the money ball, a cold blooded killer under pressure. Ronnie Allen thrived on pressure!

Then there's a man named Efren Reyes. He simply ran out racks from nowhere. He would have cut that thirteen ball in like it had eyes and gone around the table for perfect position! Efren played that close position in One Pocket better than anyone ever. He would nudge balls out of his way and move the cue ball though narrow openings to get to the next shot. The best ever at running balls when they were down table. He could run eight and out when all the balls were inside the head string. He would bank the first ball and get behind the other balls, some within a diamond of the head rail. Never saw anyone else do that like him. Efren has his own twenty year reign on top of the One Pocket world.
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Ronnie played in an era when 1pocket was something of a "dark art" and no one knew the shots and he stole.

In addition, the standard equipment in that era were GCs with 5" pocket. That is not to say that he wouldn't have been good on 4.25" Diamonds but there is a significant difference. He shoots some of those splash shots against one of today's elite payer and it's goodnight Ronnie.

I think we can all agree Efren and his accomplishments stand alone.

Lou Figueroa
 
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