Searching For a Cue Maker To Tackle a Custom Kielwood Cue Shaft

Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Since this is the forum where cue makers often patrol, I figured it was logical to present my requirements for a Kielwood shaft built the way I want. It’s really simple. All the Kielwood shafts I’ve found, and I’ve spoken with several cue makers as well, are lighter than what I want.

It has been explained to me how torrification lightens a maple shaft. I presently have a radial Kielwood shaft that weighs 3.81 ozs (12.85mm) 1/2” ferrule & pro taper which plays great. However, the cue maker only makes radial joint cues and I need a 3/8x10 and 3/8 x11 flat faced shaft so I need another source. I want a 29” shaft but could live with a 30” length to increase the shaft weight which is a critical spec for me. My preference is to get a KW shaft weighing 4 ozs or heavier but 3.8 ozs. is my minimum KW shaft weight. Only 1 cue maker stepped up to say he can deliver but his wait is 6 months and costs twice as much as other cue makers.

Let me be candid about this point. I want to have two more Kielwood shafts made with my specs but I don’t need them. I have a great group of cues that play fine with heavier original maple shafts so this is more of a whimsical addition since my Barnhart KW shaft plays wonderful when matched with my Scruggs radial ivory joint cue butt.

I figure if a cue maker can build a flat faced 29” maple shaft weighing in the low 4 ozs., which I have many, it should not be a daunting task to build a KW shaft with my specs. So far I have not found that to be the situation, or at least that’s been my experience which is the reason for this thread. Perhaps I am misunderstanding how a maple shaft gets transformed into Kielwood despite having it explained to me by different cue makers? I’m not a fan of carbon fiber shafts and like the feel of a smooth wood shaft in my closed bridge (sans glove).

If any cue maker wants to discuss building me a KW shaft with my specs, I’m interested in chatting with them in person rather than exchanging essays on this forum. Just send me a PM with your contact info. However, if anyone wants to post comments about this thread, which what this Forum is all about, I’m inviting them to jump in. I think Kielwood shafts play superior to maple shafts but that’s my opinion.
 
With a radial or 3/8x10 it's a somewhat simple matter to add up to a little over .3 oz. The two ways that I have experience in are on a 3/8x10, I drilled and tapped it further in then took a brass 3/8x10 joint protector piece, made a screw slot in it and screwed it in first with a little sealant. If doing again, and making a shaft, I would just drill and tap a longer threaded hole at the start. Or if working on an existing shaft, I would drill out the existing hole, plug it, then drill and tap a new longer threaded hole.
When I did it a second one on a Jacoby radial shaft, I went a different way and liked that much more as I didn't have to worry about wrecking the existing threads, as I used a piece of stainless 5/16x14 for weight, and the pilot hole was slightly smaller than one for the radial, so nothing touched the existing radial threads. It was quite simple actually to do, and took me less than a half hr or so to do for the 5/16x14 and that included figuring everything out and making in the screw in weight.
How a cue or shaft maker would add weight, couldn't tell you but they may have a better way, I just tried it with what I had on hand and my home cue lathe. The 5/16x14 rod was quite simple and I could have added more weight easily but my drill bit and tap length of what I had allowed me to only add apx .35 oz.
As to what Jacoby would do, I know that when I was at their place shortly after, telling them about my efforts with adding some weight to an existing shaft of theirs, they said they would have drilled it out, plugged it, and drilled and tapped a deeper threaded hole for me to insert a section of weight in. As I didn't have a radial tap, that option was out for me. An actual cue maker might have longer drills and a longer tap to add more weight or more weight forward also. It can be done, just comes down to if they want to do it.
 
Thank you for taking the time to explain how you approached this requirement.
I’m somewhat naive because I’m thinking you just pick & use a heavier dowel.

You could also contact a supplier of roasted maple dowels, like Atlas Supplies,
and request them to verify the weight of the heaviest dowels they can furnish.

It seems to me with the right wood selection, there shouldn’t be any need to
manually adjust the shaft weight by adding an insert other than as a receiver.

Richard Hsu’s latest 2.0 version flat face shaft uses a phenolic insert for a more
secure connection with the butt & to protect the threads. It must add some weight.

Thanks for posting on my thread offering ideas & suggestions on what can be done.
 
If you look at that picture of the Mezz shaft weight adjustments that is on your other posting in Wanted, You will see and understand that is basically what I have done with putting in my piece of 5/16x14 stainless rod in. Where theirs are nicer is it is tapped further into the shaft for either more weight and or more forward weight. Would be nice if all shafts offered this.
 
Bavafongoul said:
Since this is the forum where cue makers often patrol, I figured it was logical to present my requirements for a Kielwood shaft built the way I want. It’s really simple. All the Kielwood shafts I’ve found, and I’ve spoken with several cue makers as well, are lighter than what I want.

It has been explained to me how torrification lightens a maple shaft. I presently have a radial Kielwood shaft that weighs 3.81 ozs (12.85mm) 1/2” ferrule & pro taper which plays great. However, the cue maker only makes radial joint cues and I need a 3/8x10 and 3/8 x11 flat faced shaft so I need another source. I want a 29” shaft but could live with a 30” length to increase the shaft weight which is a critical spec for me. My preference is to get a KW shaft weighing 4 ozs or heavier but 3.8 ozs. is my minimum KW shaft weight. Only 1 cue maker stepped up to say he can deliver but his wait is 6 months and costs twice as much as other cue makers.

Let me be candid about this point. I want to have two more Kielwood shafts made with my specs but I don’t need them. I have a great group of cues that play fine with heavier original maple shafts so this is more of a whimsical addition since my Barnhart KW shaft plays wonderful when matched with my Scruggs radial ivory joint cue butt.

I figure if a cue maker can build a flat faced 29” maple shaft weighing in the low 4 ozs., which I have many, it should not be a daunting task to build a KW shaft with my specs. So far I have not found that to be the situation, or at least that’s been my experience which is the reason for this thread. Perhaps I am misunderstanding how a maple shaft gets transformed into Kielwood despite having it explained to me by different cue makers? I’m not a fan of carbon fiber shafts and like the feel of a smooth wood shaft in my closed bridge (sans glove).

If any cue maker wants to discuss building me a KW shaft with my specs, I’m interested in chatting with them in person rather than exchanging essays on this forum. Just send me a PM with your contact info. However, if anyone wants to post comments about this thread, which what this Forum is all about, I’m inviting them to jump in. I think Kielwood shafts play superior to maple shafts but that’s my opinion.
Click to expand...
Matt,
Contact Bob Dzuricky. I've talked with him a few times this past week. He is making Torrified shafts. I know he's going to be busy this coming weekend (March 7th thru the 10th) with the Pennsylvania State 8 Ball tournament, but after that, he might just be your guy. No one does cleaner work than Dz.
Best
j2
 
j2pac said:
Matt,
Contact Bob Dzuricky. I've talked with him a few times this past week. He is making Torrified shafts. I know he's going to be busy this coming weekend (March 7th thru the 10th) with the Pennsylvania State 8 Ball tournament, but after that, he might just be your guy. No one does cleaner work than Dz.
Best
j2
Click to expand...
I talked to Bob recently about his Torrified shafts, he isn't going to get Matt near his desired weight.

Having said it still might be worth a phone call. :)
 
Am I mistaken in thinking it shouldn’t be that hard to get a KW shaft in a heavier version?

I have a 29.5” flat faced KW shaft (12.85mm) that weighs 3.81 ozs. I am okay with its specs.
That wasn’t a fluke or accident. It’s just KW wood, short ferrule & Kamui cue tip…..that’s it.

I just don’t want anything lighter and there were other Barnhart KW shafts heavier than mine.
It just seems that if you can build a maple shaft that weighs 4.2 or 4.3 ozs, that should suffice.

Just start with a heavier weight shaft and the weight reduction from torrification should not be
a issue. There is a % weight removal and just allow for it when selecting the shaft wood to use.

It seems very straightforward to my way of thinking but having to add weight to the shaft artificially
is not what I want to do. The KW shaft should not have to have weight added because it is too light.
 
Sorry, you're not going to be able to tell weight was added to a 4 oz shaft to get to 4+oz. Specially if it's jointed to the butt.
Maybe, you can by holding the shaft but no way you can when shooting.
If it's a high quality piece, you shouldn't worry .2 to .3 oz was added.
I suggest paper phenolic insert for 3/8 threads
 
JoeyInCali said:
Sorry, you're not going to be able to tell weight was added to a 4 oz shaft to get to 4+oz. Specially if it's jointed to the butt.
Maybe, you can by holding the shaft but no way you can when shooting.
If it's a high quality piece, you shouldn't worry .2 to .3 oz was added.
I suggest paper phenolic insert for 3/8 threads
Click to expand...
Joey……if I could find a 4 oz. flat faced KW shaft, I wouldn’t want to add weight to it anyway.

I have a hard and fast rule about the weight relationship of the shaft and cue butt. I always adhere
to it and I’ve learned firsthand that the very best cue makers do so as well. The lightest shaft I will
accept is 3.8 ozs & 4.25 ozs. is the heaviest. It makes sense using a shaft dowel that would otherwise
produce a 4.3 or 4.4 oz. maple shaft would meet my KW shaft specs after undergoing torrification.

Obviously I’m not a cue maker which is why I posted in this forum. I’m surprised the cue making
experts haven’t chimed in. I think that it may be that most cue makers don’t have the shaft wood
in their inventory to build what I want made. And most buyers aren’t as fussy as me when it comes to
pool cues so they buy what the cue maker builds. I’m different since I buy what I tell them to make.
 
I'm finishing these for my Taiwan dealer.
Tight grain as can be .
3.7+ oz.
I've had 4 oz but they're rare.
Basically you have to start with an 11 oz 1" dowel.
I just weighed 10 newly turned peanut butter KW.
8 were below 10 oz. 2 were 10.2 or so oz .
Not impossible to find but rare.
I have over 300 KW shafts .
I believe Diveney has more.
I'm well stocked because they're hot now overseas.
 

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Joey, your explanation makes sense and coincides with what I presumptuously attempted to explain as a lay person whereas your remarks reflect real world experience & cue making expertise. I just knew this could be done w/o adding weight….TX.
 
Thanks….I will do that……JoeyInCali’s post supports my belief it’s simple to build a KW shaft with my specs.

The issue becomes having access to the right wood to use. Cory Barnhart already accomplished this and only
built the shaft 1/2” longer. Unfortunately, he only makes radial cue joints and I need some different big pin shafts.

Ernie Guitterez made it a practice to carefully store shaft dowels by age and weight. He could build a cue with 13mm
4.5 oz. maple shafts if that’s what you wanted. He maintains an inventory of wood that most other cue makers envied.

If JoeyInCali finds a 11 oz. one inch shaft dowel, it has a home with me as a KW shaft he could build using my specs.
I’ll go so far as to write any reputable cue maker feeling up to the challenge is invited to tackle building me a KW shaft.

From what I’ve read and based on conversations with 3 cue makers, it all comes down to having the right shaft wood.
So if anyone does, let’s see why they are secretly keeping it under wraps and will they use it to build me a KW shaft?
 
Last edited:
JoeyInCali said:
I'm finishing these for my Taiwan dealer.
Tight grain as can be .
3.7+ oz.
I've had 4 oz but they're rare.
Basically you have to start with an 11 oz 1" dowel.
I just weighed 10 newly turned peanut butter KW.
8 were below 10 oz. 2 were 10.2 or so oz .
Not impossible to find but rare.
I have over 300 KW shafts .
I believe Diveney has more.
I'm well stocked because they're hot now overseas.
Click to expand...
What tip size are these at 3.7oz? Thanks
 
Bavafongoul said:
Thanks….I will do that……JoeyInCali’s post supports my belief it’s simple to build a KW shaft with my specs.

The issue becomes having access to the right wood to use. Cory Barnhart already accomplished this and only
built the shaft 1/2” longer. Unfortunately, he only makes radial cue joints and I need some different big pin shafts.

Ernie Guitterez made it a practice to carefully store shaft dowels by age and weight. He could build a cue with 13mm
4.5 oz. maple shafts if that’s what you wanted. He maintains an inventory of wood that most other cue makers envied.

If JoeyInCali finds a 11 oz. one inch shaft dowel, it has a home with me as a KW shaft he could build using my specs.
I’ll go so far as to write any reputable cue maker feeling up to the challenge is invited to tackle building me a KW shaft.

From what I’ve read and based on conversations with 3 cue makers, it all comes down to having the right shaft wood.
So if anyone does, let’s see why they are secretly keeping it under wraps and will they use it to build me a KW shaft?
Click to expand...
Just buy a few more of Corey's shafts, and have them plugged/re-tapped to the 3/8-11 thread.
Problem solved.
😁
 
j2pac said:
Just buy a few more of Corey's shafts, and have them plugged/re-tapped to the 3/8-11 thread.
Problem solved.
😁
Click to expand...
What seems so crazy is he only builds radial joints. I inquired if he would do that or build me a new shaft with a 3/8x10 or 11 pin. Martin forewarned me that he is steadfast in his approach and likely would not be interested. Martin is right.

I could send the cue to my favorite cue maker but I’d be insulting him since he makes KW shafts. I approached him about building me a KW shaft; he was straightforward explaining he couldn’t promise the shaft weight would be right.

I attempted to get the attention of cue makers in the sub forum and hoping someone would step up and post they can
build my KW shaft. None have shown up so far and it’s probably because they’re either too busy or just can’t pull it off.

JoeyInCali was the only one that posted; he confirmed if you start use a heavier shaft dowel, the torrified weight will be
what I want. So the question becomes if anyone other than Richard Hsu had the required wood. Maybe that is why his
KW shafts take as long to build as some cues and he can charge hundreds more than others. It really should be easier.

If no one comes forth, I’ll order a Schmelke shaft for 1/2 the price. My friend has two KW shafts he ordered as 30” shafts (piloted & 3/8x10 flat faced) with 1” Juma ferrules. Both are over 4 ozs. so I’m confident a 29 1/2” would work.

I tried with his 3/8x10 KW shaft on my Prewitt and Jerry R. Cues (3 cues) and the .840 collar size of the shafts aligned
seamlessly. The hit was pretty similar to my Barnhart KW shaft, is more affordable, looks great & is built within weeks.

It just seems that based on what I’ve researched & cue maker comments, it shouldn’t be so challenging to get a slightly
heavier KW shaft built. I’ve been trying & been unsuccessful for several months. It seems very odd but Obladi Oblada.
 
Bavafongoul said:
What seems so crazy is he only builds radial joints. I inquired if he would do that or build me a new shaft with a 3/8x10 or 11 pin. Martin forewarned me that he is steadfast in his approach and likely would not be interested. Martin is right.

I could send the cue to my favorite cue maker but I’d be insulting him since he makes KW shafts. I approached him about building me a KW shaft; he was straightforward explaining he couldn’t promise the shaft weight would be right.

I attempted to get the attention of cue makers in the sub forum and hoping someone would step up and post they can
build my KW shaft. None have shown up so far and it’s probably because they’re either too busy or just can’t pull it off.

JoeyInCali was the only one that posted; he confirmed if you start use a heavier shaft dowel, the torrified weight will be
what I want. So the question becomes if anyone other than Richard Hsu had the required wood. Maybe that is why his
KW shafts take as long to build as some cues and he can charge hundreds more than others. It really should be easier.

If no one comes forth, I’ll order a Schmelke shaft for 1/2 the price. My friend has two KW shafts he ordered as 30” shafts (piloted & 3/8x10 flat faced) with 1” Juma ferrules. Both are over 4 ozs. so I’m confident a 29 1/2” would work.

I tried with his 3/8x10 KW shaft on my Prewitt and Jerry R. Cues (3 cues) and the .840 collar size of the shafts aligned
seamlessly. The hit was pretty similar to my Barnhart KW shaft, is more affordable, looks great & is built within weeks.

It just seems that based on what I’ve researched & cue maker comments, it shouldn’t be so challenging to get a slightly
heavier KW shaft built. I’ve been trying & been unsuccessful for several months. It seems very odd but Obladi Oblada.
Click to expand...
The Schmelke angle might be the way to go.
👍
 
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