Van Boening vs. Gorst 10-Ball Race to 120, Rematch June 2025 -- General Comments Thread

Also he came out punchy and flat footed. It happens. A bad match doesn’t define a 20 year career for anyone. Ever.

As I mentioned before SVB whacked Alex 40-20 for ~77K in the middle 15-16 years ago. Alex didn’t lay down and die.

Nobody has a career like SVB and quits because of a bad session. Ever.
 
Has the torch officially been passed?
It was passed long ago. Filler and Gorst have been #1 and #2 on the AZB money list for nearly three years now and they are always the ones to beat at the majors. SVB is still super-elite, but not quite in their class. He'll beat both of them from time to time in major competition, but it will never come easy.
Whatever the case, I believe there is a subtle difference between making excuses and looking for reasons. My opinion only. I love watching Fedor play and am very proud he has decided to represent the U.S. internationally!
Yes, well said.
 
It was passed long ago. Filler and Gorst have been #1 and #2 on the AZB money list for nearly three years now and they are always the ones to beat at the majors. SVB is still super-elite, but not quite in their class. He'll beat both of them from time to time in major competition, but it will never come easy.
i agree, I should have mentioned I was specifically referring to the long format marathons SVB is so well known for...
Yes, well said.
 
I believe you are wrong.

It's true that, just as is still the case today, he tended not to be given the proper credit for his defensive wizardry back then, but he was already super-elite in defensive play even in 2022, miles above Ouschan and Alcaide even then, although perhaps not quite Pagulayan's equal. To be fair, though, Alex is top three of all time in defensive play, with only Reyes and Varner in the conversation with him, so my comment is hardly a knock at Josh.
I had to laugh when I read this. Part of my thinking on Filler was formed by watching him lose to ... Pagulayan twice in one week during the 2023 World Pool Championships. I was thinking, how could he lose to this guy twice. Alex outfoxed him at several key points in two very close matches.

Of course, I didn't really know just how great a player Pagulayan had been (and still is when he's committed). I knew he had been considered one of the game's best at one point, but he was just so small and unassuming. Only later did I really understand. Hah.
 
  • Love
Reactions: sjm
Alex had an earlier match where he was 22 games down to Shane and won by 7.
Can’t remember whether it was 9-ball or 10-ball.
10-Ball. TAR Action Challenge 3, May 2008. Pagulayan won 100-94, with daily scores of 24-30, 39-40, 37-24. He trailed by 22 at 41-63.
 
It was passed long ago. Filler and Gorst have been #1 and #2 on the AZB money list for nearly three years now and they are always the ones to beat at the majors. SVB is still super-elite, but not quite in their class. He'll beat both of them from time to time in major competition, but it will never come easy.

Yes, well said.
Stu,

I’ve always said that SVB has never had the raw talent Earl , Sigel, etc have. I’ve always said that Shane is the hardest working elite player and he’s earned his game-it wasn’t gifted to him. To this day I’ve never seen anyone work as hard as he does on his game constantly. Not to say others don’t work or SVB doesn’t have talent.

Just saying SVB works a bit harder and has a hair less talent.

What’s your take on this?

And ofc I love what Shane has accomplished in pool, he’s a friend and a hero at the same time. And to me he’s always gonna be “Kid”.

I’m hoping for a SVB comeback match! But is I said earlier today. Who, where, what and when I haven’t a clue. And if he does hang it up I’ll be sad but support his decision.

Best
Fatboy 😃
 
was there a significant difference between fedor's percentages between the two matches? i'm shooting from the hip but i seem to remember BNR around 40 in match #1, for both players. of course fedor broke better this time around
 

thanks. not much difference in fedor's performance, but a big dip for svb
 
Stu,

I’ve always said that SVB has never had the raw talent Earl , Sigel, etc have. I’ve always said that Shane is the hardest working elite player and he’s earned his game-it wasn’t gifted to him. To this day I’ve never seen anyone work as hard as he does on his game constantly. Not to say others don’t work or SVB doesn’t have talent.
I've got to disagree here. If SVB had a hair less natural talent than an Earl, Efren, Pagulayan, Sigel, Filler, Gorst or Varner, he still qualifies as having had very elite level talent. As you note, he has worked his tail off for everything he has accomplished, but to be fair, Sigel and Earl were comparable practice room workaholics, and Filler and Gorst are picking things up where SVB, Earl and Sigel left off.

Still, you are right in the area of the break. Nobody has ever worked as hard on their break as SVB, and I wonder whether anyone ever will. His formula was always to beat opponents by parking them in the chair for racks at a time, thereby avoiding those racks in which control of the table had to be fought for. Today's far tougher breaking rules and tighter pockets have made defensive and tactical play much more important than they were ten years ago, as putting packages together in major tournament play has become much more difficult.

What’s your take on this?
My take is that SVB is a role model for all developing players. He has shown how much work ethic and passion are needed to become a generational player. He raised the bar in the 2010s the way Gorst and Filler are raising it in the 2020s and I am convinced that his excellence figured in pushing both of them to their highest level.

I can only think of two other players that displayed as much love for the game as SVB, and they are Efren Reyes and Jeanette Lee. Love of the game has been a big part of SVB's winning recipe for greatness.

Another thing I have noticed and love about SVB, that his fellow pros should pay attention to, is how serious he is when he is warming up. In this sense, he reminds me of Efren Reyes and Allison Fisher, both of whom were all business as they warmed up for a match.

At very least, SVB is in the conversation for best ever American 9ball player, along with Lassiter, Sigel and Strickland. All who pursue excellence over the glorious green felt should follow and be inspired by his example.
 
I've got to disagree here. If SVB had a hair less natural talent than an Earl, Efren, Pagulayan, Sigel, Filler, Gorst or Varner, he still qualifies as having had very elite level talent. As you note, he has worked his tail off for everything he has accomplished, but to be fair, Sigel and Earl were comparable practice room workaholics, and Filler and Gorst are picking things up where SVB, Earl and Sigel left off.

Still, you are right in the area of the break. Nobody has ever worked as hard on their break as SVB, and I wonder whether anyone ever will. His formula was always to beat opponents by parking them in the chair for racks at a time, thereby avoiding those racks in which control of the table had to be fought for. Today's far tougher breaking rules and tighter pockets have made defensive and tactical play much more important than they were ten years ago, as putting packages together in major tournament play has become much more difficult.


My take is that SVB is a role model for all developing players. He has shown how much work ethic and passion are needed to become a generational player. He raised the bar in the 2010s the way Gorst and Filler are raising it in the 2020s and I am convinced that his excellence figured in pushing both of them to their highest level.

I can only think of two other players that displayed as much love for the game as SVB, and they are Efren Reyes and Jeanette Lee. Love of the game has been a big part of SVB's winning recipe for greatness.

Another thing I have noticed and love about SVB, that his fellow pros should pay attention to, is how serious he is when he is warming up. In this sense, he reminds me of Efren Reyes and Allison Fisher, both of whom were all business as they warmed up for a match.

At very least, SVB is in the conversation for best ever American 9ball player, along with Lassiter, Sigel and Strickland. All who pursue excellence over the glorious green felt should follow and be inspired by his example.
We agree, SVB has a hair less talent but more than made up for it with his work ethic. And yes ofc ultra elite level player, and as good for the cash as anyone ever. Fair statement?

Hope ur having a great summer Stu! Looking foward to crossing paths with you again. I always enjoy our talks. As I hold value what you say! 🤩

Best
Fatboy
 
To compare an almost 42-year-old SVB to Filler (27) and Gorst (25) in 2025 is not a fair comparison.
That’s something I was thinking this year as well. At SVB age gaining a year is bad. At Fedora age it’s good. So that’s 2 strikes against Shane over last year.

Until the mid 30’s each year is usually better for a player. There are exceptions-Keith is the notable one. He played his best at a very young age. But most guys improve until the mid 30’s. After 40 it started to slip.
 
That’s something I was thinking this year as well. At SVB age gaining a year is bad. At Fedora age it’s good. So that’s 2 strikes against Shane over last year.

Until the mid 30’s each year is usually better for a player. There are exceptions-Keith is the notable one. He played his best at a very young age. But most guys improve until the mid 30’s. After 40 it started to slip.
I'm in in the large camp here on AZB that believes Shane plays as well today as he ever did but that the standard has risen. Hence the comparison of the 31-year-old Shane to Josh and Fedor is exactly the same as with the 41-year-old Shane.

I'm tiring of the "he's older and less motivated" excuses that I keep reading around here. On the contrary, he has never played 9ball at the level Josh and Fedor are displaying today, not even during his undeniable peak of 2014-2016. Filler, in particular, has changed my view of what level is possible at 9ball, and Fedor is barely behind. You were there at the 2025 Derby City 9ball when Filler turned in two different TPA 1.000 matches in a single session!

There is little doubt in my mind that the hardest titles to come by in men's pro pool are the World 9ball, the US Open 9ball, the China Open, the All-Japan and the World Games. No player has ever won all of them. Shane has six of these (1 World 9ball, 5 US Opens), but, at 27 years old, Filler also has six (1 World 9ball, 1 US Open 9ball, 3 China Opens and 1 gold at the World Games). For the record, Earl has eight (3 modern-era World 9ball and 5 US Opens).

As a collector of the most difficult major titles, Filler is on target to become the most decorated player of the 21st century by far, and I believe that, one day, he'll be remembered as the best player since Mosconi. Still, none of us will sleep on Gorst.

I will not let nostalgia get in the way of giving today's best their proper due. The game of pool is being played at a level we have never seen before.
 
Last edited:
Put me i

I'm in in the large camp here on AZB that believes Shane plays as well today as he ever did but that the standard has risen. Hence the comparison of the 31-year-old Shane to Josh and Fedor is exactly the same as with the 41-year-old Shane.

I'm tiring of the "he's older and less motivated" excuses that I keep reading around here. On the contrary, he has never played 9ball at the level Josh and Fedor are displaying today, not even during his undeniable peak of 2014-2016. Filler, in particular, has changed my view of what level is possible at 9ball, and Fedor is barely behind. You were there at the 2025 Derby City 9ball when Filler turned in two different TPA 1.000 matches in a single session!

There is little doubt in my mind that the hardest titles to come by in men's pro pool sport are the World 9ball, the US Open 9ball, the China Open, the All-Japan and the World Games. No player has ever won all of them. Shane has six of these (1 World 9ball, 5 US Opens), but, at 27 years old, Filler also has six (1 World 9ball, 1 US Open 9ball, 3 China Opens and 1 gold at the World Games). For the record, Earl has eight (3 modern-era World 9ball and 5 US Opens).

As a collector of the most difficult major titles, Filler is on target to become the most decorated player of the 21st century by far, and I believe that, one day, he'll be remembered as the best player since Mosconi. Still, none of us will sleep on Gorst.

I will not let nostalgia get in the way of giving today's best their proper due. The game of pool is being played at a level we have never seen before.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinion. I'm tired of a lot of things on this forum, but I do respect opinions and thoughts share by members and hope they can do the same from time to time.
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinion. I'm tired of a lot of things on this forum, but I do respect opinions and thoughts share by members and hope they can do the same from time to time.
Thanks. I think the danger here is to not give SVB enough credit for WHO HE IS today. We all know that he is among the best that ever played the game, but it is because, in my heart of hearts, I know that he is still the super-elite player he has always been that I predict another major for him soon. Wishing him well.
 
Back
Top