Slow play by pros

Although I strongly dislike tight pockets for tournament play, I don't think that has anything to do with the slow play. Snooker players as a group are about twice as fast as pool player when they go through the motions of walking around the table and finally pulling the trigger. There are no pool tables used in pool tournaments (even the recent 4" pocket ones) as tight as a 12' snooker table, due to the pocket rounds.
 
Why should we attack you? Can we just disagree like people did in Keith and Earl's time?
Because what I said was negative. I don't want to be negative. I have been playing over 70 years and since I was in my early 20s pool has been my life and business. I hate to have to say something negative about the game.

I think there are (must be) better ways to improve the game at the pro level then to make it so hard it effects the actual play of the game.
I would like to see win by 2 in the final. Also 10 ball played more.

I don't know, I have said enough. I just know when a pool fanatic like me tunes out maybe something is wrong. There is no way what I have been watching would excite a new viewer. Most likely they would just see it as boring and you have lost them.
 
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I'm not buying that the switch to tighter pockets in any way explains slow play. In fact, slow play was just as big a problem 10-15 years ago when the pockets were much looser.

Slow play persists because it is tolerated. There is an old saying about pro pool and it is "give the players all day to shoot and that's exactly how long they will take."

As those who play on Mike Zuglan's Joss Northeast Tour know, slow play is not tolerated on the Joss Tour. If a match is scheduled for two hours and Mike sees that it is 3-2 at the one-hour mark, he will get in the players' faces and tell them to hurry up. He's the exception.

The WPBA had a nice approach in the 1990s and 2000s. If a race to nine was scheduled for two hours, if the players had not completed eight racks by the one-hour mark, the remainder of the match would be played on the shot clock, with a volunteer overseeing the match with a stopwatch. The very prospect of having to go onto the shot clock motivated the players to keep things moving, and not many matches ended up on the shot clock.

In a perfect world, at least at the majors, there would be a shot clock in every match (or at least in every Stage 2 match) but it costs money to have that many referees and shot clock operators, and pool operates on pretty small profit margins to start with. The chess clock solution might well work, but nobody seems willing to try it.

I agree with all those who suggest that the lack of a shot clock reduces the quality of the pro pool offering, making the game less exciting to watch.
Stu, you're absolutely right, when it comes to the point of rather watching Greg Fix playing Frank Tabereski in a game of straight pool something needs to be done with watching modern day nine ball without strict enforcement of a shot clock which is akin to watching paint dry!
 
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Speed of play won’t bring in more fans or sponsors.

how do you know that?

would snooker have grown to what it's become without alex higgins, jimmy white and ronnie o'sullivan?

in pool it's rare to find someone who dislikes watching guys like drago, luc salvas, soufi. most people like it.

i don't think we can force pro players to become fast players, of course. but use more shot clocks, and shame the super slow players..
 
The most irritating thing about slow players (and I’ve played the slowest) is when they take forever to decide on a shot, get down to shoot, but then change their mind, thus starting the whole routine over, AND THEN REPEAT THE PROCESS MULTIPLE TIMES! Maybe instead of a shot clock, some rule that forced shooting any shot you get down on would help (?).
 
The most irritating thing about slow players (and I’ve played the slowest) is when they take forever to decide on a shot, get down to shoot, but then change their mind, thus starting the whole routine over, AND THEN REPEAT THE PROCESS MULTIPLE TIMES! Maybe instead of a shot clock, some rule that forced shooting any shot you get down on would help (?).
They would never get down to shoot… 😝
Taking too much time to shoot brings doubts into the game and could work against the slow player.
Those really slow players usually don’t win the tournament.
 
For you guys that think the table conditions don't play a role in the overall slowing down of the game -- do you even play pool? (Use your best jasonlaus voice while reading that question).

Anytime I get on a tougher, foreign table, my natural inclination is to slow down. Add pressure and live streaming, and it shouldn't surprise anyone that the game slows down. Now, does slowing down to a snail's pace actually help? I don't think so. The problem is recognizing that different tables specs are going to lead to different outcomes. I think it's the different outcomes that throw the players off. This is where you get the non-stop staring down of the shot angles, and the pinpoint measuring and indicating of cue ball placement. Once you start down this road, if you skip a step and then miss a ball -- you're convinced it's because you didn't religiously follow a, b, c, and d. It's a tough loop to get out of.

Meanwhile O'Sulliavan completes two 147's in the same match without measuring out any shot angles.
 
I would be curious what the powers that be long term goals are? Is it to grow the game with greater public awareness and acceptance? Bring in new players to the sport? Increase it's entertain value? Do they have long term goals they can actually articulate????

i don't know. but when it comes to satellite events there are certain things that needs to be in place for it to be a WNT ranking event. i think the break rules and a minimum amount of added money? maybe shot clock on the tv table should be another requirement.
 
Another thing -- snooker doesn't always move along quickly, but it's more a part of building the dramatic narrative than found in pool. The commentators seem more comfortable filling the dead time between shots in snooker. So the production plays a big part in how palatable slow play is.
 
And people keep asking for tighter and tighter pockets. Modern pool has turned into safety-filled 'cinch' pool drudgery. Without refs/clocks its virtually un-watchable. It has ZERO flow that pool had back in the CamelTour days.
Couldn't agree more, it is harder to play on tighter pockets, there are far less chances to cheat the pocket so a Pro who is earning a living would be stupid not to play the safety instead of playing a hard shot, its not just the size of the pockets but the angle of the face as well, I would like to see matches where you have to really make a decision whether to take the shot or play safe, it would make safety play more difficult and risk taking on shots more acceptable, I think it is one of the biggest differences from the days when Strickland, Archer, McCready and many others would chance the difficult shot instead of playing safe, there is no real option in today's game.
 
I think the games should be 8 ball or 10 ball, I grew up on 9 ball but slop has changed the outcome of so many tournaments. Why be rewarded for a miss?
There should be a 30 second shot clock with one extension per game
 
I think the games should be 8 ball or 10 ball, I grew up on 9 ball but slop has changed the outcome of so many tournaments. Why be rewarded for a miss?
There should be a 30 second shot clock with one extension per game
Lucky slop shots basically never alter the outcome of professional tournaments.
 
getting the occasional lucky slop shot (which may be a back door 2 way shot) ≠ altering the outcome of a match. But you know that
 
Happens more than you know, I’ve won tournaments due to a slop shot as have my opponents. I didn’t feel good about it but that’s 9 ball
You are not a pro, I assume. Can you point to a pro tournament match outcome that was materially altered by a slop shot?
 
of course tight pockets add to slow play. you have to have pin point position to make the shot and have the right angoe for the next. with big pockets you have lots of room to miss your spot to land.

so you do get an edge by studying all the possibilities and then making the best decision instead of just shooting for where it looks to be best.
you have to do that with small pockets to give you the absolute best chance.

still you need to keep the game moving, so the t.d. just has to give slow play warnings. none do and that just makes it worse.
ban for a few tournaments the slow players like we all know who they are. and tell them they will be barred for a year if they dont change.
it will instantly get faster.
the bad part some do it on purpose as they know it throws off the opponent. so it is a viable tactic and perfectly legal as of now.
 
You are not a pro, I assume. Can you point to a pro tournament match outcome that was materially altered by a slop shot?
Not a pro but played pros in tournaments. Can’t think of a specific tournament but
know it happens in 9 ball. I watched Alex slop twice in one tournament on the Billiards TV. channel just a couple
months back. He had a shot into the side on the 8 ball and needed to draw back for the 9. The 8 ball hit the point of the side pocket and slid down the rail into the corner. Next time was when he was going for a bank into the side and ball did the same thing off the point of the side and into the corner pocket. He smiled and apologized but he still won the game
 
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