What do you mean only seen with super slo-mo? haha, I literally saw it during gameplay on live broadcast while at normal speed, in fact I said wait whaaaat, this is a foul. I went back to a reply and seen it again at normal speed and I was right. then I immediately posted about it here but in the US-OPEN thread. You don't need a slo-mo to see it, you just need to have an alert eyes I guess.
Yapp winning, with a foul! Just like Maradona making a goal with his hands :D
- Thread starter smoochie
- Start date
The timing is so close, foul would be obvious to anyone who saw movement. I imagine there were sweaters there waiting for shit to happen too.
What about the implications though? Did all the bets settle up smoothly?Haha I am sorry dude, but its alright I guess vision are different from one guy to the other. I saw it in normal speed at live broadcast again, I thought it was obvious one too....but again vision are different, maybe age also matters. I dunno but yea I don't think everyone would be capable of seeing that, some other ppl may see it easily... which is why I always spot fouls very very easily, I can see the nips of movement, not just in pool by the way. I guess my job also has a factor in this
There is no contact movement in either clip. The contact "rock" in the slo mo is part of the jitter and the only movement in either video is post stroke and in the wrong direction.
I get this. You tube no less. Still, claiming absolute foul with no forensic evidence is disturbing.
JFTR, I mean Vegas show magic. IOW anything fakeable will be faked. It's cheaper for one thing...
Good for you. Where should i send your 'vision medal'?
Hope you survive this trauma because nothing is changing. Dude. BTW, i'm 65 and just had eyes chk'd about 4mos ago. Only need specs for up close reading. When the doc asked me to read bottom line on chart i told him where the chart was made(real little letters). He laughed. I can see pool balls as well as when i was in my 20's. Lucky for sure.middleofnowhere
Registered
Not to add another wrinkle to this stuff, but my opinion many of the jump shots they do are not legal. When I learned to jump balls you hit about a third of a cue ball causing the cue ball to bounce. Those guys are practically hitting the table. The ferrule of that cue is almost certain to come in contact with the cue ball.
None of that is really technically correct. When things get hit hard enough to be moved any amount that would be pretty easily noticeable by the naked eye as you claim happened here, especially spherical objects with very little resistance acting against them, they start moving immediately (ignoring elasticity or compression type effects and the like which aren't really a factor here with pool balls and cue shafts). They don't start moving some time later on "AFTER" the contact as you are claiming.
Now because videos are essentially just a series of pictures as you mentioned, there is a very small amount of time in between each of those frames (usually between 1/24th and 1/60th of a second between frames on youtube videos depending on the camera used for filming and the quality it was uploaded and/or being played in), so you may not see the movement happen in the same frame where the contact happened, but you will almost always see it by the next frame (especially at these slower frame rates), not several frames down the road as you claimed, because again things like pool balls don't just sit there still for a while before they decide to start to move.
Also contrary to your claim, sometimes you will indeed be able to see the ball movement in the very same frame that you see the contact occurring in, but you shouldn't expect to be able to see it until the following frame.
Last edited:
'Practically' is not hitting the table just like 'almost certain' doesn't mean ferrule actually hits the ball. Watched a ton of pool in person and have yet to see a pro hit a jump that i thought was anything close to being a foul. Not saying it never happens but i seriously doubt your concern is really warranted. Amateur/hobby level pool is a different story. I see a lot of clueless jump attempts, often result is a foul but they don't even know it.
that's what a ref is for to call the fouls. if he doesn't it isn't a foul. unless the opponent calls for a replay or some sorts.
who is someone to know if they fouled on something that close. and is it a foul if the wind from the shot moved it. or was it sitting on a grain of sand and roll off it as the shot went by.
here is a question i dont know the answer to. can the opponent come and stand over the shot to watch for a foul if its close. and if not why not.
in the pool room we do that as we dont have a supposedly impartial ref.
and isnt it up to the opponent to ask the ref to watch the shot from close up if the ref. is not.
who is someone to know if they fouled on something that close. and is it a foul if the wind from the shot moved it. or was it sitting on a grain of sand and roll off it as the shot went by.
here is a question i dont know the answer to. can the opponent come and stand over the shot to watch for a foul if its close. and if not why not.
in the pool room we do that as we dont have a supposedly impartial ref.
and isnt it up to the opponent to ask the ref to watch the shot from close up if the ref. is not.
I needed to watch the footage three times before I was sure of it, but I agree that the nine, which did not move, oscillated and that this was a foul.
I think it is highly unlikely that Aloysius knew he fouled, and if ten referees were in the arena watching, I wonder if any of them would have noticed it. Still, there is no question that this, under the strictest interpretation of the rules, is a foul.
Still, we must cut them all some slack. Any suggestion that only an incompetent referee would have failed to notice the ever so slight oscillation of the 9ball is, to me, ridiculous. It was a difficult call to make and, yes, it was missed. Calls are missed all the time, and sometimes in big spots like this one. Yes, it is a shame. Had Fedor noticed the oscillation of the 9ball, he could have requested a video review of the shot (for you old timers, this happened very late in the Darryl Peach vs Francisco Bustamante World 9ball semifinal in 2007 and the original call was changed.) Unfortunately, unless somebody deems the shot worthy of review, it will not be reviewed, and in this case nobody did.
Let's not compare this to the waxing issue at the WPC, where referees had ample evidence that the rules were not being observed but failed to apply rules that they are paid to enforce. Nonetheless, I objected strongly to any suggestion that such failures cheapened the accomplishment of eventual champion Biado.
I was rooting for Fedor, but I will not allow this incident to devalue Yapp's win in any way. Fedor had his chance in Rack 24 and missed, sealing his fate. Yapp was the best this week, and he has been the best 9ball player in the world for several months now.
Well played, Aloysius Yapp.
I think it is highly unlikely that Aloysius knew he fouled, and if ten referees were in the arena watching, I wonder if any of them would have noticed it. Still, there is no question that this, under the strictest interpretation of the rules, is a foul.
Still, we must cut them all some slack. Any suggestion that only an incompetent referee would have failed to notice the ever so slight oscillation of the 9ball is, to me, ridiculous. It was a difficult call to make and, yes, it was missed. Calls are missed all the time, and sometimes in big spots like this one. Yes, it is a shame. Had Fedor noticed the oscillation of the 9ball, he could have requested a video review of the shot (for you old timers, this happened very late in the Darryl Peach vs Francisco Bustamante World 9ball semifinal in 2007 and the original call was changed.) Unfortunately, unless somebody deems the shot worthy of review, it will not be reviewed, and in this case nobody did.
Let's not compare this to the waxing issue at the WPC, where referees had ample evidence that the rules were not being observed but failed to apply rules that they are paid to enforce. Nonetheless, I objected strongly to any suggestion that such failures cheapened the accomplishment of eventual champion Biado.
I was rooting for Fedor, but I will not allow this incident to devalue Yapp's win in any way. Fedor had his chance in Rack 24 and missed, sealing his fate. Yapp was the best this week, and he has been the best 9ball player in the world for several months now.
Well played, Aloysius Yapp.
Last edited:
Curious to know what tipped your reason. Per anything posted in this thread the 9 did not oscillate. It did move to the left and the curious are left to extrapolate - imaginate if you will, a foul.
On refs: minimum of 2 refs - at least in these big finals. In the Philippines, they have guys marking all trouble situations. Even single refs should be this on the ball. The interference doesn't bother any of those players.
Must admit that my eyesight is not as good as it once was, and I may not have seen this clearly even on the replay. Still, I saw enough to feel sure this was a foul, although one not easily detected.
I like your comments with regard to officiating and had no idea how it is done in the Philippines. Perhaps this incident will give rise to discussion of how to improve the officiating. After all, even on day six of a Matchroom major, there are still several referees in attendance, as three different ones officiate the last three matches.
What I know, having played for more than a few years, is that your pool cue becomes a part of your body — an extremely sensitive part of your body.
In some instances you can foul with your pool cue and be fully confident that *no one* but you knows you’ve fouled… unless there is video that can be slowed down and rewound.
IMO, no player can foul and claim they were unaware.
Lou Figueroa
In some instances you can foul with your pool cue and be fully confident that *no one* but you knows you’ve fouled… unless there is video that can be slowed down and rewound.
IMO, no player can foul and claim they were unaware.
Lou Figueroa
A clear counterexample when playing all ball fouls is a shirt foul, which a referee can typically see but a player may not sense.
You cant see it in super slow mode.
You're clearly not watching a video of the match we're talking about
This^^^^^ 100%.
if he's as honest as everybody says, this will bother him forever, if not it won't. There's almost no chance he didn't feel it. In fact, I would bet he did but didn't see the ball move so maybe he thought he didn't actually touch it