Constant Tip Shaping is annoying!

cueball2010

cueball2010

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
All I want to do is take my cue out, tap it a little, and play!

I have the Willard's shaper and every single time I get ready to play or practice, I use the curvature gauge part to check the shape. Every single time I have to take a little bit off the sides because the whole tip has flattened out from the day before.

My medium layered tip only started holding its shape perfectly once I was down to about 2 layers on the side walls. Soon after I had to change the whole tip because I don't think the tip side walls should be less than the thickness of a penny. Because of this shape issue I opted for a harder tip or a Triangle tip. But its the same issue... I am more then half way through this tip and it still loses the nickel shape after every pool session.

Questions:
  • Is it compressing in the middle because most shoots are center ball or near center? If so, is this normal for hard tips like Triangle?
  • Is the the chalk actually wearing away the leather towards the center of the tip?
  • Is the chalk getting under the leather fibers and expanding the parts of tip that don't take as much pounding?
  • Will burnishing the sides of the tip every other day eventually stop the flattening of the tip?
 
Once the tip is shaped after install you should mostly leave it alone, other than chalking.
  1. Chalk in a way that gets a smooth, thin layer all over the tip
  2. Rough the tip gently if it does not hold chalk because it has gotten shiny. Do not remove leather.
  3. Remove mushrooming if it is more than half a mm.
I almost never remove leather from my tip after the initial install. My tip keeps the shape it wants to have from chalking and play. That shape is fine -- I do not work against it.

About chalking: If you are one of those people who drills a hole into the chalk, you don't know how to chalk. Sorry, you are as stupid as a stump when it comes to chalking. If you ever bothered to look at your tip after you do that, you would see that you do a lousy job. Stop being a member of the Borer Tribe. If you check out the chalk box at the pool hall, you will see evidence that the Borers are all around you. Do not be like them.
 
Switch to an Ultraskin Black medium. You may have to reshape your tip once after the first few weeks play, but after that it should pretty much keep the shape needed. Also who says the tip has to match the circular cutout? I use a Williard's and I would say that the outer third of the tip somewhat matches the dime curve cutout, but the inner two thirds resembles a nickel or quarter shape. There is nothing saying it has to have a uniform curve all the way to the center
In fact after looking at the tips of a couple of the better players I play against in league, it's eye opening as the outer edge has a very defined radius but the inner 2/3rds is basically flat. Also if anyone here remembers a picture that Fatboy posted of his shaft tip, it was the same way, almost flat in the center and curved at the edges. I sure can't say what is right or wrong, but everyone has there own preferences, and one thing is for sure, you don't have to shape a tip to match the stamped out curve on a tip tool to be correct. Get a good tip, shape it once or twice the first month, then let your shooting and chalking keep it where it should be after that for the most part.
 
Tip_Time Crystal on Snooker.jpg
I used to shape every day because it helped and, since I have learned a few things,
now for no good reason. I am waiting on tip wear so that I can install a Caiden Onyx,
Taom Fusion, Ultraskin, ThePro (Milk dudded Le Pro), the only clicking tip---the Caiden Warrior,
and BulletProof hard.
 
it is just fine and probably preferably to have the tiny bit in the middle flat. and its going to happen anyway,/

just play as is as long as it holds chalk and you will find it doesn't make a shit of difference in your shooting unless your mind is at work to mess things up.
 
This and the hardness inconsistency with time made me switch to hard tips almost 20 years ago.
I do feel that with CF shafts, tips loose shape faster than they do on wooden shafts. I do need to shape it more often than I’ve used to in the past.

The truth is that there isn’t much difference in playability between dime and nickel shapes, so I shape for dime and I’m fine with it getting flatter to nickel shape, and it stays like that longer.
 
what is with all these people agonizing over the tip.

just put any old tip on and shoot for a while without even shaping it or cutting it down to meet the ferrel. you will see you will play as good as normal or close to it with only a few draw shots you have trouble with.

then shape it some, and play.
then find some other thing on your stick to blame for your misses from having a bad stroke.
 
muskyed said:
...who says the tip has to match the circular cutout? I use a Williard's and I would say that the outer third of the tip somewhat matches the dime curve cutout, but the inner two thirds resembles a nickel or quarter shape. There is nothing saying it has to have a uniform curve all the way to the center
In fact after looking at the tips of a couple of the better players I play against in league, it's eye opening as the outer edge has a very defined radius but the inner 2/3rds is basically flat.
Click to expand...
The tip and the CB are like the CB and OB: they only contact where their surfaces are parallel. For instance, a tip with a flat center could only contact the CB dead center until the tip was moved off center far enough to involve the tip's edge. This would make applying and judging side spin tricky. Tips that are smoothly rounded to at least 30 degrees of arc per side have the best surface-to-surface "match" all the way out to the CB's 30-degree miscue limit.

pj
chgo
 
Paul_#_ said:
View attachment 862396I used to shape every day because it helped and, since I have learned a few things,
now for no good reason. I am waiting on tip wear so that I can install a Caiden Onyx,
Taom Fusion, Ultraskin, ThePro (Milk dudded Le Pro), the only clicking tip---the Caiden Warrior,
and BulletProof hard.
Click to expand...
wtf is this? You're always posting about the latest and greatest CF shafts. Is this what you actually play with?
 
cueball2010 said:
All I want to do is take my cue out, tap it a little, and play!

I have the Willard's shaper and every single time I get ready to play or practice, I use the curvature gauge part to check the shape. Every single time I have to take a little bit off the sides because the whole tip has flattened out from the day before.

My medium layered tip only started holding its shape perfectly once I was down to about 2 layers on the side walls. Soon after I had to change the whole tip because I don't think the tip side walls should be less than the thickness of a penny. Because of this shape issue I opted for a harder tip or a Triangle tip. But its the same issue... I am more then half way through this tip and it still loses the nickel shape after every pool session.

Questions:
  • Is it compressing in the middle because most shoots are center ball or near center? If so, is this normal for hard tips like Triangle?
  • Is the the chalk actually wearing away the leather towards the center of the tip?
  • Is the chalk getting under the leather fibers and expanding the parts of tip that don't take as much pounding?
  • Will burnishing the sides of the tip every other day eventually stop the flattening of the tip?
Click to expand...

Try using a single layer tip.
Old school and it ain't fancy.
KISS, keep it simple stupid.
 
Chalk like you're shaping your tip, because if you use normal chalk that's what you're doing.
I've seen ferrules ground into hourglass shapes with chalk, it's very abrasive.
Watch someone who always ends up with a flat tip - they'll be chalking straight across.
The only reason to use a scuffer/shaper is if you're using some kind of lipstick consistency chalk that's not abrasive.
 
Sheldon said:
Chalk like you're shaping your tip, because if you use normal chalk that's what you're doing.
I've seen ferrules ground into hourglass shapes with chalk, it's very abrasive.
Watch someone who always ends up with a flat tip - they'll be chalking straight across.
The only reason to use a scuffer/shaper is if you're using some kind of lipstick consistency chalk that's not abrasive.
Click to expand...
Everyone has posted some great advice. But this one makes a lot of sense to me. I chalk religiously after each shot. I don't bore, I swipe with bridge hand and hold my cue in the air spinning with my stroke hand. I think I will first try swiping more at an angle with a nickel curvature hand motion. Maybe my chalk hand is swiping more on a quarter shaped curve.

If that doesn't work I think I will move to Triangle milk dudes and keep adding a 1/2 mm of compressing until I get a compressed milk dud height that holds its shape.

If that doesn't work either. I will go with the majority advice which is to just shape it once and leave it alone. But I will switch to the Willard Dime so it settles into a nickel shape. I really just want consistency. It's not about finding something to blame for missed shots. I'm blaming inconsistent tip shape for my bad Cueball control.

If that doesn't work, I might just spring for a Bulletproof hard green synthetic tip, with all its promises... Maybe leather is the problem. I think triangle tips suppose to be like 81 hardness. I don't break with my playing cue.
 
I have went many routes on tips. Back when the world was flat with gently rounded edges house cues most places were the same way. Flat across the middle, rounded edge. Fewer miscues, happier customers.

Then I tried the equal radius tips, nickel and dime. The hotdogs played with dimes, dime radius must be better. With a Williard tool and daily play I could go through a layered tip in a few weeks! When I started installing tips I considered giving a free Williard tool with every tip install. Great for using up tips in a hurry!

When I leave my tips alone I find that they become slightly flatter than a nickel. That works. So does the flat top and rounded edge. Anything works but dime and less seems to be just making things hard on myself, and grinding away tips for no good reason.

Two dimensional representations of three dimensional objects lead to some bad conclusions. Paper and ink was harmful enough but when everyone got a computer screen and super zoom then the anal concerns really took off. Hard two dimensional representations of soft flexible surfaces have a lot to do with our concern with perfection when it comes to tips. Less common now but for decades if not centuries snooker tips where radius should be more critical than pool cues were often flat or shapeless pieces of leather. Looked a lot more like an old piece of a belt or shoe tongue than something that was originally intended to be a cue tip. A lot of fantastic snooker was played with these tips!

You want to have some fun? Walk up to someone's cue, look at the tip, just shake your head with a puzzled look. Repeat several times. Psychological warfare at it's finest!

Most of the things we concern ourselves with mean little.

Hu
 
cueball2010 said:
Everyone has posted some great advice. But this one makes a lot of sense to me. I chalk religiously after each shot. I don't bore, I swipe with bridge hand and hold my cue in the air spinning with my stroke hand. I think I will first try swiping more at an angle with a nickel curvature hand motion. Maybe my chalk hand is swiping more on a quarter shaped curve.

If that doesn't work I think I will move to Triangle milk dudes and keep adding a 1/2 mm of compressing until I get a compressed milk dud height that holds its shape.

If that doesn't work either. I will go with the majority advice which is to just shape it once and leave it alone. But I will switch to the Willard Dime so it settles into a nickel shape. I really just want consistency. It's not about finding something to blame for missed shots. I'm blaming inconsistent tip shape for my bad Cueball control.

If that doesn't work, I might just spring for a Bulletproof hard green synthetic tip, with all its promises... Maybe leather is the problem. I think triangle tips suppose to be like 81 hardness. I don't break with my playing cue.
Click to expand...

Can't go wrong with a hard pressed Triangle and they're a little over a buck apiece if you buy a box of 50 of them from Tweeten. Wonder when we'll get $60 dollar tips touted as the next best thing.
The billiard industry is doing just fine merchandising the newest thing.
It's all lost on Luther Lassiter and the like.
 
+1 for Bulletproof Green. Love it, I do scuff it maybe once a month and have had it for 1.5 years. I used a Willard's maybe twice and it hardly needed it. I now have Bulletproof Green and break tips on 4 of my cues. I do not think I will ever go back, extremely happy with both and virtually no maintenance.
 
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