Nice post. Well said.
Matchroom, WNT, Mosconi Cup, and American Pro Pool
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
As Skor mentioned, the myriad reasons for the US lagging behind the rest of the world have been hashed over in these forums and nauseum, and in the 10 or so years I have been visiting this forum, not much has changed as far as I can tell.
SVB is still our Captain America, Sky still hasn't won a major (not to take away from his MOT), and aside from a brief, mostly dimmed glimmer of hope from Wolford, Styer , Reinhold, and now verner, there is no dominant heir apparent ...or at least one on the level of a young SVB or Sky.
Still, I would love to know the statistics on A). Sheer number of people who play pool at least once a week in the US vs. other countries, and B). The amount of money that is spent on pool equipment/gear in the US vs. other countries, and C). How many in the US have the dreaded 7 footer in their garages, man caves, spare bedrooms, etc.
I am still amazed at the number of random league players who couldn't pick but maybe 2 of our MC members out of a police line up, but yet they show up several nights a week carrying their JB Case filled with well over a 1000 dollars worth of cues and equipment.
I would imagine the big industry sponsors (Diamond, Cuetec, Predator, etc. ) heavily rely on US dollars, and that is a big reason MR puts much more resources into the US vs. Viet Nam or the Philippines.
SVB is still our Captain America, Sky still hasn't won a major (not to take away from his MOT), and aside from a brief, mostly dimmed glimmer of hope from Wolford, Styer , Reinhold, and now verner, there is no dominant heir apparent ...or at least one on the level of a young SVB or Sky.
Still, I would love to know the statistics on A). Sheer number of people who play pool at least once a week in the US vs. other countries, and B). The amount of money that is spent on pool equipment/gear in the US vs. other countries, and C). How many in the US have the dreaded 7 footer in their garages, man caves, spare bedrooms, etc.
I am still amazed at the number of random league players who couldn't pick but maybe 2 of our MC members out of a police line up, but yet they show up several nights a week carrying their JB Case filled with well over a 1000 dollars worth of cues and equipment.
I would imagine the big industry sponsors (Diamond, Cuetec, Predator, etc. ) heavily rely on US dollars, and that is a big reason MR puts much more resources into the US vs. Viet Nam or the Philippines.
Another great question. It's certainly a matter of opinion, but I've always felt that 90% of the coach's job must be completed prior to arrival at the Mosconi Cup venue.
Preparation is the key to success. The best formula came from Johan Ruisjink. After his Team USA was mercilessly crushed at the 2017 Mosconi Cup 11-4, he decided that a new culture and a different type of training, mindset, and preparation was needed.
During 2018, he brought Team USA to Russia to train at his academy. On that same trip, he had them all compete in the Kremlin Cup, a solid pro event having a field comparable to that found at a Euro-tour stop. He watched and studied their play. The big story there was Tyler Styer, who won the event, putting his name on the map. Choosing Tyler had been a controversial pick among American fans, but Johan went young and was rewarded.
When December came, Team USA was ready for success, and they broke their 9-year losing streak. Tyler played well, including an unforgettable win over Feijen. SVB gave his best Mosconi performance in years and delivered the final point by beating Kazakis. Still, the true star of the show was Skyler Woodward, who seemed to have benefited the most from Johan's tutelage. Lest we forget, just a month later, Skyler won both the 2019 Derby City 9ball and the 2019 Derby City Master of the Table, establishing himself as America's second-best player behind SVB.
In my opinion, when the Mosconi dates arrive, no amount of coaching will get a team that hasn't prepared well over the finish line. In fact, I think that in-match coaching tends to do more damage than good, and I think it is a trap that Team USA has fallen into far too often.
If America doesn't prepare well, they will need to get Europe's "C" game to win.
i would think because of the bar leagues USA would probably have more people playing regularly? measuring dedication and ambition is obviously more difficult, but i would also think that the ones that play regularly in europe to a higher degree are dedicated players. meaning striving to do better in tournaments, be it weekly, regional or national/international.
and knowing the names of pros probably correlates with recreational vs dedicated players, so it could be a good measure.
There is a lot of stuff to unpack in your thread, so I will do it piecemeal.
Let’s start with Windows Open - otherwise known as Doggin It - and Matchroom’s relationship with the American “pool press” and the social media sphere. What that really means is Mike Panozzo and Molina Mike.
Panozzo and his small staff are really the only American pool press to speak of. Very tiny. And Panozzo continues to do a great job. I am a Billiards Digest subscriber and look forward to every issue.
Molina Mike (MM) has some influence, and lately he has taken to bashing Matchroom, the WNT and Emily Frazer with regularity. I thought he veered into personal criticism of Frazer in the last episode, something that professional journalists avoid. I know this, because I am a longtime journalist.
It’s gotten old quick. I am almost at the point of not listening anymore. MM just keeps making the same critiques over and over again. We get the message. No need to beat a dead horse.
When he is not bashing MR ceaselessly, Molina Mike does some good stuff. He talks too much - I want to hear more from Panozzo - but he’s smart and connected. I especially like when he has players on his show. A sport can only grow if fans take and have interest in players.
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Does Molina Mike have a point in his Frazer/MR criticism? Sure. I referred to many of them in a prior post.
Start with Frazer. She is a bit thin skinned at times, and doesn’t like to get asked tough questions in front of players. That’s obvious at Mosconi "press" conferences - they are anything but. She needs to be more willing to engage. Heck, the controversy might be good for the sport.
MM also ridiculed Frazer the other day for doing lots of selfies and promoting players he doesn’t think are deserving. Ridiculous, in my view. She works her tail off to promote the sport and be an ambassador for it. She should promote anyone and everyone.
What does Predator/WPA do in this regard? Absolutely nothing. Pool needs more promotors and, yes, self promotors like Emily.
Now Matchroom and WNT. The schedule in 2025 was a holy mess this year.
The dispute with the WPA probably contributed to that. And lest anyone forget, the WNT tour was only established in 2023. I’d expect lots of growing pains, especially since pool has never had anything like WNT is trying to achieve.
If the sked is a mess again in 2026, however, there should be consequences. The full-year calendar should be available well in advance.
Other MR issues:
*The point system for ranking sucks. Dollars won is not the best determinant.
*WNT.TV still needs big improvement, and an app would be best.
*Invitational events need to be regular. If not, drop them. There was no World Cup of Pool for the second year in a row and no World Pool Masters.
*The Reyes Cup selection process was very flawed. And Team World is a fatally flawed concept. No one plays for the “world.”
*The Mosconi Cup selection process is also flawed. Having team captains gives MR more control, but it’s also led to players getting on the team who might not be deserving. That’s led to a lot of talk, justifiably so, of a fix being in. Or a buddy system.
I’d junk the player captains and return the Mosconi closer to its recent roots. In my ideal scenario, the first four spots would be based on rankings, with just one wild card and a non-playing captain.
I don’t think there was much criticism last year of players prioritizing Predator events over Matchroom ones, or vice versa. Predator is the biggest sponsor of players around the world. Naturally its players should be expected to participate in Predator events.
The crux of the matter was Filler siding with top players against the WPA ban, then reneging. No need to rehash the whole episode.
Personally, I think players should do what is best for their careers and wallets. I just wish WPA/Predator/WNT would collaborate more on scheduling to avoid conflicts. Or better yet, schedule to make it easier for players to travel to events held by one or the other.
What I do think has changed is that players are as a whole more neutral now about the WPA/WNT rivalry. They were starting to lean toward the WNT last year, but not anymore.
How come? WNT has rubbed some players wrong. The poor scheduling is one reason. The treatment of Filler may have pleased some players, but it ticked off others. WNT has also come to be seen as having favorite players who get special and unfair attention.
And finally, Predator has stepped it up. It’s holding more events, offering more prize money and seeing itself as a challenger to the WNT for pro pool primacy.
The USA cannot be ignored. It’s the biggest market for amateur players and the richest country in the world. There is still a huge pool of talent here, and I would not be surprised if most WNT TV subscribers are in the US.
Asia might be the future, but it’s not a super wealthy market overall for advertising and consumer dollars.
As SJM pointed out, Frazer has made a concerted effort to create or align WNT with more events in the U.S. She has repeatedly said this year that WNT has to do more in the US, at the very least to improve the talent pool for the Mosconi, its crown jewel.
Frazer has indicated WNT plans to create a third major event in the US in 2026. We will have to wait and see. Stuff has fallen by the wayside before. But if the WNT comes through, it is sending a message.
WNT communications hasn’t been consistent and needs to improve. That said, the WPA is not good at all and Predator is no better than MR/WNT. It holds nice events, but that’s all it really does.
This is why Frazer promotes so much stuff on social media. It's basically free. The lack of money in pool shows up in the lack of communications.
The WNT is expected to move the U.S. Open to Texas from Atlantic City.
Frazer has mentioned a third major event in the US next year. An announcement was supposed to come either after the Philippines Open or the Mosconi. We'll have to wait and see.
The three automatic spots for both Team USA and Team Europe weren't finally settled until the Philippines Open. You don't understand why the wait. I don't understand why the rush.
I would have done what Matchroom did - drag it out a bit and announce the players on different days.
Some of the Ryder Cup wild cards aren't announced until the week before the event.
Thanks for sharing your opinions. I do not agree with some, seeming more opinionated than factual, but I do agree with some other points.
It's nice to see you have hope for the American pro pool contingent. Me? Not so much anymore. There's a reason why Europe and Asia pro pool contingents excel, and that is what is lacking in USA, which will continue to move in a downhill spiral if something does not change the current norm.
Don't get me wrong. I am a strong pool fan, and I do want to see American pool as a sport thrive and grow.
I also happen to value Window's Open podcasts a lot because it keeps me informed about the latest pool news. There are other pool-related groups on Facebook, but I find Window's Open is the most current and up to date.
Personally, my opinion is that Matchroom's treatment of American pool media and other pool-related groups is a little too flippant for my taste. Transparency would be a step in the right direction instead of playing a guessing game as to what's going to happen next. But that's my opinion, and as the saying goes, everybody has one.
I would love to see the expense sheet of an active touring pro in the US. Take away SVB and Fedor as the exception and not the rule when it comes to $$, and it would be interesting to know what the financials are for a guys like, Styer, Oscar, Billy, etc.
Styer, Thorpe, LFV- all with winnings under 50k. Nobody likes to talk specifics when it comes to money, but how sustainable is it to keep playing in MR open events in Europe and Asia? Heck, even a week in Orlando gets expensive. But as much as MR has done to increase payouts and such, without more specific info, we just don't know how realistic it is for aspiring Americans to keep chasing the dream.
It is a scenario that has played out over and over, Hatch, Dechaine, and more recently Oscar. How long until the next American hopeful realizes that it is much easier to achieve a middle class life by selling insurance or going into HVAC repair?
Styer, Thorpe, LFV- all with winnings under 50k. Nobody likes to talk specifics when it comes to money, but how sustainable is it to keep playing in MR open events in Europe and Asia? Heck, even a week in Orlando gets expensive. But as much as MR has done to increase payouts and such, without more specific info, we just don't know how realistic it is for aspiring Americans to keep chasing the dream.
It is a scenario that has played out over and over, Hatch, Dechaine, and more recently Oscar. How long until the next American hopeful realizes that it is much easier to achieve a middle class life by selling insurance or going into HVAC repair?
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head with this post.
Why do you think Predator does not promote its players or events? Seen you mention this couple times. Do you follow Predator Pro Billiard Series on social media? Maybe you expect Karim to be skinning his teeth with players all over the place.
As far as the talent pool, that does not include adults who started playing in bar league a couple of years ago. Anyone aspiring to be a pro player needs to put in many 8-hour days on good equipment before they turn 21. There are many promising young players at the US Junior Nationals, but in that age group, I think Poland is stronger.
Recently a very active bar league player told me that the real interest in league play was the social interaction and getting better was not very interesting, especially the boring practice part. When I was putting in my 8- and 12-hour days, I wanted to play better and to beat people, and much of my table time was solo practice.
99.999% of the best trapshooters in the world have full time jobs. Maybe less than 5 make a living by coaching. Pool players need to realize that if they can't sustain themselves from playing alone then they need to get a job and play whenever they can. I hear about too many "pros" playing full time and they are just not good enough. I don't feel sorry for these people.
No World Pool Masters this year despite Emily Frazer announcing publicly at the US Open in August that it would be in early November (no specific date given). I certainly don't mind changes in plans for valid reasons, and the calendar has been quite full since then. But don't just announce something and then say nothing more about it when plans change (significantly).
[Is it possible that Matchroom did make an announcement about no WPM this year and I just didn't see it?]