SJM at 2025 Mosconi Cup: Way too Late Thoughts

[Cord]

Hard to figure any of it. The Earl choice of a few years ago showed that playing in most Matchroom events is not a prerequisite for Mosconi inclusion. In 2024, however, Filler was excluded for missing one WNT major.

Hence, the inclusion of Justin Bergman, who does not play the WNT Tour, is not something that can be ruled out.

Wonder how well Justin plays these days.

Check out some of his performances from Ultimate Pool USA's recent events. His shotmaking, thought process, and pattern play seem to be as good or better as they've ever been. The question would be probably be his 9ball break on a 9' table.

Well, that, and that he doesn't seem inclined to participate.

 

[sjm]

Check out some of his performances from Ultimate Pool USA's recent events. His shotmaking, thought process, and pattern play seem to be as good or better as they've ever been. The question would be probably be his 9ball break on a 9' table.

Well, that, and that he doesn't seem inclined to participate.

Thanks. Ten years ago, Justin Bergman's after-the-break skills were as good as those of any American, so I'm not surprised by your assessment.

 

[sjm]

Just to "yes and..."

The USOPC receives a significant portion of U.S. broadcast revenue from the multi-billion dollar deal with the IOC and NBCUniversal to air the Olympics in the U.S. It also gets some corporate sponsorships with Nike, Coca-Cola, Visa, and others for marketing rights. It raises money from individuals, including one-time and recurring donors, as well as major gifts from wealthy patrons and foundations. The USOPC licenses the Team USA brand and selling Olympic-branded merchandise. And the USOPC and its affiliated foundations host gala events, auctions, and donor summits to raise funds directly. And I'm sure specific sports national governing bodies are prominent enough to do their own fundraising if their sport is prestigious enough (gymnastics).

The obvious issue for billiards is that the BCA doesn't receive any of that financial support from the USOPC. Of course pool isn't in the Olympics, just the World Games. Which doesn't preclude it from getting some USOPC support like bowling does. I'm sure if pool got in the Olympics it would go a long way to get access to USOPC funding. Maybe even participation in the Pan American Games would help its case. But I've heard the primary sticking point is that the USOPC only wants to work with a single national governing body (NGB) for a sport and the main deal breaker is that the BCA is not a unified North American governing body for pocket billiards, snooker and carom (it's just pool). Kind of like how the IOC only wants to deal with the WCBS, not the WPA. USOPC wants to deal with something that doesn't exist, not the BCA.

Your point is valid that any debates between socialism and capitalism aren't relevant. But I thought I'd contribute what appears to be the primary deal breaker for supporting our athletes under that umbrella. It's very hard to see how American pool talent develops outside the model of pool hobbyists supported by family at a very young age become motivated to "go pro one day" and find success commercially through events and sponsors. It's hard to see how we develop a structure that systematically develops talent without a major breakthrough on the commercial side of pool.

Yup, Matt, I think we are saying the same thing, but thanks for adding some supporting details, some of which I was unaware.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... But I've heard the primary sticking point is that the USOPC only wants to work with a single national governing body (NGB) for a sport and the main deal breaker is that the BCA is not a unified North American governing body for pocket billiards, snooker and carom (it's just pool). ...

I believe that was never the problem. I believe the problem was that the BCA president who was pushing membership of a US billiard organization in the USO(P)C retired and the new Board did not want to give up control. In particular, I believe the regulations at the time required the Board of any NGB to have at least 30% members who were current or past athletes -- unreasonable for a manufacturers' organization. That could have been done with a separate organization that was focused on players rather than business matters, but the BCA chose not to pursue that route. Instead, the BCA got rid of its leagues -- sold to Mark Griffin -- so it now has no player members.

If the BCA had pushed forward, I think both the USBA and the USSA would have been delighted to be members in some fashion. I say this as someone who has been on the boards of both of those organizations.

Brunswick and then the manufacturers have governed pool (and carom until about 1966) in the US. Pool has never been governed by a sports organization. The closest was when the BCA had leagues and they held championships and trained referees and instructors, but it was still primarily a business organization. Note that it was only this year that there has been a US National Pool Championship for men.

 

[sjm]

I believe that was never the problem. I believe the problem was that the BCA president who was pushing membership of a US billiard organization in the USO(P)C retired and the new Board did not want to give up control. In particular, I believe the regulations at the time required the Board of any NGB to have at least 30% members who were current or past athletes -- unreasonable for a manufacturers' organization. That could have been done with a separate organization that was focused on players rather than business matters, but the BCA chose not to pursue that route. Instead, the BCA got rid of its leagues -- sold to Mark Griffin -- so it now has no player members.

If the BCA had pushed forward, I think both the USBA and the USSA would have been delighted to be members in some fashion. I say this as someone who has been on the boards of both of those organizations.

Brunswick and then the manufacturers have governed pool (and carom until about 1966) in the US. Pool has never been governed by a sports organization. The closest was when the BCA had leagues and they held championships and trained referees and instructors, but it was still primarily a business organization. Note that it was only this year that there has been a US National Pool Championship for men.

Thanks for this, Bob.

 

[MattPoland]

I believe that was never the problem. I believe the problem was that the BCA president who was pushing membership of a US billiard organization in the USO(P)C retired and the new Board did not want to give up control. In particular, I believe the regulations at the time required the Board of any NGB to have at least 30% members who were current or past athletes -- unreasonable for a manufacturers' organization. That could have been done with a separate organization that was focused on players rather than business matters, but the BCA chose not to pursue that route. Instead, the BCA got rid of its leagues -- sold to Mark Griffin -- so it now has no player members.

If the BCA had pushed forward, I think both the USBA and the USSA would have been delighted to be members in some fashion. I say this as someone who has been on the boards of both of those organizations.

Brunswick and then the manufacturers have governed pool (and carom until about 1966) in the US. Pool has never been governed by a sports organization. The closest was when the BCA had leagues and they held championships and trained referees and instructors, but it was still primarily a business organization. Note that it was only this year that there has been a US National Pool Championship for men.

I’m having Deja Vu. You’ve corrected me with that exact point before. Thanks again!

 

[xproskier]

And my "next years" Team USA would be...

Fedor Gorst (Of course.)
Shane Van Boening (Of course.)
Skyler Woodward (Solid, but NOT as a Captain.)
Justin Bergman (Somebody talk to this guy. Please convince him.)
Oscar Dominguez (Loose, happy and solid. Tyler Styer fundamentally solid but his nerves are his own worst enemy. Sorry dude.)
Jesus Atencio (PLEASE Mr. Trump, make this Venezolano superstar a US Citizen tomorrow! We DESPERATELY need him. Possible 6th guy.)
Anthony Meglino (Good friend of mine but not for this reason. Solid, robotic, quiet. IF no Jesus, and a 6th can be brought onto a team.)

Note: I did not include juniors like Lukas but certainly not ruling any out. Adding ONE junior per team could be a future MR decision.

NON-PLAYING Captain: Someone who understands the importance of physical training as well as mental, multi-drill coaching, team management and merging personalities all into ONE. Someone who absolutely gives a shit about winning and not just "making it to the playoffs."

Practice routine (per person): On Rassons' with 3.9" pockets. (I believe that was the spec for this year's MC. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Lag x 1000
Cut-break x 8000 Maybe another 1000 pp just for good measure.
Long straight follow x 2000
Long straight draw x 3000
Drills drills and more drills
Anything into the side pockets and from every imaginable angle x 3000
End pattern run-outs (7, 8, 9) x 1000
Jumping x 2000
Defense strategies and shots x 3000
Playing under shot-clock conditions

You will have one full year to accomplish this. It's a grind. And each person should play in as many WNT events as possible for the exposure.

I would also try to find out what the euro's are doing for prep. Then double it. Does this guarantee a 2026 USA victory in Orlando? Certainly not. But maybe it brings the margin or gap a little closer and from that, we can hopefully learn something, and further prepare. I'm no billiards guru by any stretch, but I do play very well and have also played a sport at the professional level. I do know the importance of training, both physically and mentally and the preparation grind it demands. And I also learned that while I was sleeping, my enemy was training.

 

[sjm]

And my "next years" Team USA would be...

Fedor Gorst (Of course.)
Shane Van Boening (Of course.)
Skyler Woodward (Solid, but NOT as a Captain.)
Justin Bergman (Somebody talk to this guy. Please convince him.)
Oscar Dominguez (Loose, happy and solid. Tyler Styer fundamentally solid but his nerves are his own worst enemy. Sorry dude.)
Jesus Atencio (PLEASE Mr. Trump, make this Venezolano superstar a US Citizen tomorrow! We DESPERATELY need him. Possible 6th guy.)
Anthony Meglino (Good friend of mine but not for this reason. Solid, robotic, quiet. IF no Jesus, and a 6th can be brought onto a team.)

Note: I did not include juniors like Lukas but certainly not ruling any out. Adding ONE junior per team could be a future MR decision.

NON-PLAYING Captain: Someone who understands the importance of physical training as well as mental, multi-drill coaching, team management and merging personalities all into ONE. Someone who absolutely gives a shit about winning and not just "making it to the playoffs."

Practice routine (per person): On Rassons' with 3.9" pockets. (I believe that was the spec for this year's MC. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Lag x 1000
Cut-break x 8000 Maybe another 1000 pp just for good measure.
Long straight follow x 2000
Long straight draw x 3000
Drills drills and more drills
Anything into the side pockets and from every imaginable angle x 3000
End pattern run-outs (7, 8, 9) x 1000
Jumping x 2000
Defense strategies and shots x 3000
Playing under shot-clock conditions

You will have one full year to accomplish this. It's a grind. And each person should play in as many WNT events as possible for the exposure.

I would also try to find out what the euro's are doing for prep. Then double it. Does this guarantee a 2026 USA victory in Orlando? Certainly not. But maybe it brings the margin or gap a little closer and from that, we can hopefully learn something, and further prepare. I'm no billiards guru by any stretch, but I do play very well and have also played a sport at the professional level. I do know the importance of training, both physically and mentally and the preparation grind it demands. And I also learned that while I was sleeping, my enemy was training.

This is certainly a well thought out post, but its premise is that we need only pick a different team and practice a little harder than Europe to win. If only it were so simple. Any suggestion that Europe is beating us at the Mosconi because they prepare better for the event itself really misses the boat, except in one sense, and that is that they are far more committed to playing the world pool calendar, which has built a European competitive pedigree that is the envy of American pool.

Over the past 10-15 years, so many Europeans have been very committed to playing most of the world pro pool calendar while few Americans have done the same. Put another way, the Europeans are much more prepared than the Americans for the Mosconi because they have been so committed for so long to playing in all the majors worldwide.

In short, we have long known what the Europeans do that make them prepared for success at the Mosconi, but few Americans have shown the willingness to do the same. Hence, your post is evasive of the real issue that has plagued American pool for many years and that is that American-born pros, as a group, have not been paying their dues and building their competitive pedigrees to the extent needed to consistently maintain world class play.

This cannot be fixed in the practice room alone, although what happens in the practice room is critical. Still, advances made in the practice room must be accompanied by a much greater level of participation in the most elite worldwide pro events if Americans are to close the gap between themselves and Europe.

 

[lfigueroa]

Hard to figure any of it. The Earl choice of a few years ago showed that playing in most Matchroom events is not a prerequisite for Mosconi inclusion. In 2024, however, Filler was excluded for missing one WNT major.

Hence, the inclusion of Justin Bergman, who does not play the WNT Tour, is not something that can be ruled out.

Wonder how well Justin plays these days.

Jam

Up

Lou Figueroa

 

[jokrswylde]

I saw a few things on FB about the Euros being put up in nice, spacious accommodations, while the US was put in a tiny apartment. Any one know if there is any truth to this? Not that it would/should make a difference in outcome or performance, but seems petty if true. (unless of course the tables are reversed when it is over here)

 

[sjm]

I saw a few things on FB about the Euros being put up in nice, spacious accommodations, while the US was put in a tiny apartment. Any one know if there is any truth to this? Not that it would/should make a difference in outcome or performance, but seems petty if true. (unless of course the tables are reversed when it is over here)

No idea where they all stayed in London, but it is not the reverse in the US. The Mosconi players on both teams stayed at the Caribe Royale Hotel in Orlando, Florida in 2024 and will stay there again in 2026.

 

[7stud]

My own state is a poor state, poor enough that malnutrition is often an issue resulting in small statues in some areas.

Like the following???

 

[sjm]

Jam

Up

Lou Figueroa

Good to know. Thanks, Lou.

 

[jeephawk]

And my "next years" Team USA would be...

Fedor Gorst (Of course.)
Shane Van Boening (Of course.)
Skyler Woodward (Solid, but NOT as a Captain.)
Justin Bergman (Somebody talk to this guy. Please convince him.)
Oscar Dominguez (Loose, happy and solid. Tyler Styer fundamentally solid but his nerves are his own worst enemy. Sorry dude.)
Jesus Atencio (PLEASE Mr. Trump, make this Venezolano superstar a US Citizen tomorrow! We DESPERATELY need him. Possible 6th guy.)
Anthony Meglino (Good friend of mine but not for this reason. Solid, robotic, quiet. IF no Jesus, and a 6th can be brought onto a team.)

Note: I did not include juniors like Lukas but certainly not ruling any out. Adding ONE junior per team could be a future MR decision.

NON-PLAYING Captain: Someone who understands the importance of physical training as well as mental, multi-drill coaching, team management and merging personalities all into ONE. Someone who absolutely gives a shit about winning and not just "making it to the playoffs."

Practice routine (per person): On Rassons' with 3.9" pockets. (I believe that was the spec for this year's MC. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Lag x 1000
Cut-break x 8000 Maybe another 1000 pp just for good measure.
Long straight follow x 2000
Long straight draw x 3000
Drills drills and more drills
Anything into the side pockets and from every imaginable angle x 3000
End pattern run-outs (7, 8, 9) x 1000
Jumping x 2000
Defense strategies and shots x 3000
Playing under shot-clock conditions

You will have one full year to accomplish this. It's a grind. And each person should play in as many WNT events as possible for the exposure.

I would also try to find out what the euro's are doing for prep. Then double it. Does this guarantee a 2026 USA victory in Orlando? Certainly not. But maybe it brings the margin or gap a little closer and from that, we can hopefully learn something, and further prepare. I'm no billiards guru by any stretch, but I do play very well and have also played a sport at the professional level. I do know the importance of training, both physically and mentally and the preparation grind it demands. And I also learned that while I was sleeping, my enemy was training.

Arbitrary and over the top practice routines really aren't any kind of answer and not realistic. These guys are either motivated to practice to maintain whatever level of performance they want to have, or they aren't. The issue clearly appears to be the other guys overall are simply better - thinking you can make guys perform 24,000 reps minimum of some drills, lol, is fantasy.

Guys can either perform better at profesional pool under pressure than other guys, or (and totally IMO and having no experience at any real, competitive level playing pool) . . . they can't. Physical training? Good luck. Merging personalities into "ONE"? It's an individual sport so that doesn't work or should be a goal - managing personalities? Sure. It's kind of a "team", maybe some marginal gains in looking at partners for the doubles, but it's not like they're a fractured group or somehow being more "team" like will cause someone not to miss routine shots on the 9 ball - "I must make this for the TEAM!" - not seeing it as a necessary or even productive thought - they play competitive pool all the time and to a very large extent they are who they are.

It's just an exhibition, the US isn't good enough to win, not sure it "has" to win.

 

[MattPoland]

Arbitrary and over the top practice routines really aren't any kind of answer and not realistic. These guys are either motivated to practice to maintain whatever level of performance they want to have, or they aren't. The issue clearly appears to be the other guys overall are simply better - thinking you can make guys perform 24,000 reps minimum of some drills, lol, is fantasy.

Guys can either perform better at profesional pool under pressure than other guys, or (and totally IMO and having no experience at any real, competitive level playing pool) . . . they can't. Physical training? Good luck. Merging personalities into "ONE"? It's an individual sport so that doesn't work or should be a goal - managing personalities? Sure. It's kind of a "team", maybe some marginal gains in looking at partners for the doubles, but it's not like they're a fractured group or somehow being more "team" like will cause someone not to miss routine shots on the 9 ball - "I must make this for the TEAM!" - not seeing it as a necessary or even productive thought - they play competitive pool all the time and to a very large extent they are who they are.

It's just an exhibition, the US isn't good enough to win, not sure it "has" to win.

Extremely well said. I feel the story is really about rolling the dice year over year and hoping. We hit snake eyes this year. Keep the fans excited while we are slogging against the odds. Hope that investments are made to improve the competitive structure that’s available stateside (junior events, pro events, and sponsorships). And hope the next crop of US athletes emerge out of that structure at a level of generational talent good enough to form a stronger team. Because the future isn’t about getting SVB, Sky, Tyler, Billy, or Oscar playing better. It’s not even about getting Bergman back. What we have now… it is what it is.