With Joshua winning in Vegas, does Fedor's backers still want some?

I can't fathom how one can see Filler's ability with their own eyes and still question it.
You're talking the best players on the planet, for us, I hope they want it.JF playing 9 ball - nobody wants that, NOBODY! Playing 10 ball, I don't know

The break is the difference and Fedor has to be the favorite 10 ball
Fedor does not have to be the favorite at all. Filler won 8 games in a row to beat him. 8!!! With winner break at the Las Vegas 10ball Open.


In the above video, Filler beats Gorst 8 games in a row to win. 8!!! Fedor won the first game and Filler won the rest of the games to take the match.

This match was winner breaks as well.

Fedor against anyone else, he is the favorite. Against Filler, he is not the favorite.

Fedor's only chance of beating Filler in 10ball is alternate break with a break-box in effect.

In the video below, Filler beats Gorst 11-9 playing 10ball on a 10ft table.

 
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This is what ChatGPT has to say lol:​


1) The single most important metric in pro pool: world-level majors​

In professional pool, players are usually judged by Matchroom majors + WPA World Championship (not small opens or invitationals).

Fedor Gorst — elite peak achievements​

  • WPA World 9-Ball Champion: 2019 and 2024
  • U.S. Open 9-Ball Champion (2024)
  • World Pool Masters Champion (2024) — beat Filler in the final
  • First player ever to win World Championship + U.S. Open + World Pool Masters in the same year
  • Reached another world final in 2025
That’s basically a “career-defining” season compressed into one year. In cue sports terms, that’s a peak comparable to SVB’s best runs.
Conclusion on peak:
Gorst has the higher mountaintop.

Joshua Filler — still elite, but different profile​

  • WPA World 9-Ball Champion: 2018
  • US Open 9-Ball Champion: 2019
  • WPA World 8-Ball Champion: 2024
  • Derby City 9-Ball Champion: 3x
  • China Open 9-Ball Champion: 3x
  • World Pool Masters Champion: 2022
  • UK Open 9-Ball Champion: 2022
  • Multiple Mosconi Cup MVP-level performances (team dominance era)
  • Constant deep finishes in majors (finals and semifinals repeatedly)
Filler absolutely has a world title — but he does not have the multi-major sweep Gorst achieved.
Conclusion on peak:
Gorst > Filler in biggest-tournament legacy (so far).

2) Consistency & match-play dominance​

This is where the debate flips.
Among pro players, Filler has a reputation as the most difficult opponent in race-to-9 and race-to-11 formats because of his offensive tempo.
Why?

Filler’s competitive traits​

  • Extremely fast shooter
  • Elite break-and-run frequency
  • Momentum player (can 5-pack you in minutes)
  • Thrives in short races (Mosconi format)
He can literally erase a match before you get back to the chair.
Many pros privately consider him the scariest head-to-head opponent.

Gorst’s competitive traits​

  • Highest composure in the sport
  • Best safety decision-making under pressure
  • Elite cue-ball discipline
  • Clutch finals player
Gorst wins long tournaments.
Filler wins matches.
This is a real distinction in pro pool.

3) Direct comparison — how they beat each other​

Here’s the real tell:
  • Gorst tends to beat Filler in major finals / long-pressure sets
  • Filler often overwhelms players in short race formats and team play
Meaning:
  • Filler’s ceiling = explosive offense
  • Gorst’s ceiling = tournament winning endurance

4) The technical difference (why they feel so different)​

Pool players notice this immediately.

Filler
  • Pattern player
  • Plays by instinct
  • Shot-making confidence
  • Aggressive table clearance
Gorst
  • Percentage player
  • Chooses lowest-variance options
  • Elite safety exchanges
  • Tactical control

Translation in plain terms:
  • Filler beats you with firepower.
  • Gorst beats you with inevitability.

Final verdict​

If you force an objective answer:

Career greatness right now: Fedor Gorst (stronger major résumé).
Most feared opponent on a random table today: Joshua Filler.


So the honest ranking:
  • Peak legacy: Gorst
  • Match-to-match danger: Filler
  • Overall talent: essentially equal
They are the two best 9-ball players of their generation, and the argument will likely depend on the next 5 years — especially whether Filler adds another world title.
 

This is what ChatGPT has to say lol:​


1) The single most important metric in pro pool: world-level majors​

In professional pool, players are usually judged by Matchroom majors + WPA World Championship (not small opens or invitationals).

Fedor Gorst — elite peak achievements​

  • WPA World 9-Ball Champion: 2019 and 2024
  • U.S. Open 9-Ball Champion (2024)
  • World Pool Masters Champion (2024) — beat Filler in the final
  • First player ever to win World Championship + U.S. Open + World Pool Masters in the same year
  • Reached another world final in 2025
That’s basically a “career-defining” season compressed into one year. In cue sports terms, that’s a peak comparable to SVB’s best runs.
Conclusion on peak:
Gorst has the higher mountaintop.

Joshua Filler — still elite, but different profile​

  • WPA World 9-Ball Champion: 2018
  • US Open 9-Ball Champion: 2019
  • WPA World 8-Ball Champion: 2024
  • Derby City 9-Ball Champion: 3x
  • China Open 9-Ball Champion: 3x
  • World Pool Masters Champion: 2022
  • UK Open 9-Ball Champion: 2022
  • Multiple Mosconi Cup MVP-level performances (team dominance era)
  • Constant deep finishes in majors (finals and semifinals repeatedly)
Filler absolutely has a world title — but he does not have the multi-major sweep Gorst achieved.
Conclusion on peak:
Gorst > Filler in biggest-tournament legacy (so far).

2) Consistency & match-play dominance​

This is where the debate flips.
Among pro players, Filler has a reputation as the most difficult opponent in race-to-9 and race-to-11 formats because of his offensive tempo.
Why?

Filler’s competitive traits​

  • Extremely fast shooter
  • Elite break-and-run frequency
  • Momentum player (can 5-pack you in minutes)
  • Thrives in short races (Mosconi format)
He can literally erase a match before you get back to the chair.
Many pros privately consider him the scariest head-to-head opponent.

Gorst’s competitive traits​

  • Highest composure in the sport
  • Best safety decision-making under pressure
  • Elite cue-ball discipline
  • Clutch finals player
Gorst wins long tournaments.
Filler wins matches.
This is a real distinction in pro pool.

3) Direct comparison — how they beat each other​

Here’s the real tell:
  • Gorst tends to beat Filler in major finals / long-pressure sets
  • Filler often overwhelms players in short race formats and team play
Meaning:
  • Filler’s ceiling = explosive offense
  • Gorst’s ceiling = tournament winning endurance

4) The technical difference (why they feel so different)​

Pool players notice this immediately.

Filler
  • Pattern player
  • Plays by instinct
  • Shot-making confidence
  • Aggressive table clearance
Gorst
  • Percentage player
  • Chooses lowest-variance options
  • Elite safety exchanges
  • Tactical control

Translation in plain terms:
  • Filler beats you with firepower.
  • Gorst beats you with inevitability.

Final verdict​

If you force an objective answer:

Career greatness right now: Fedor Gorst (stronger major résumé).
Most feared opponent on a random table today: Joshua Filler.


So the honest ranking:
  • Peak legacy: Gorst
  • Match-to-match danger: Filler
  • Overall talent: essentially equal
They are the two best 9-ball players of their generation, and the argument will likely depend on the next 5 years — especially whether Filler adds another world title.
Great read. I know little about ChatGPT but I think it's cool to get such a complete evaluation. I'm afraid what it would say about me. :)
 
Please stop with the AI slop. That's a nonsensical evaluation and you know it.
What is nonsensical about it? How about presenting your argument instead of just saying it's not accurate?

I agree most pictures/images nowadays are AI slop and lazy, but this written text does that not fall into that category.

If you follow pro pool, you would know this is pretty spot on.

AI is saying they are pretty much equal in talent, with Fedor having the stronger resume (majors) and Filler being the most feared. I don't see anything wrong with that evaluation.

I personally believe Filler is the best player on the planet and I can still agree with this breakdown. I'm not biased.

If we go by Fargo alone, no one is above Filler.

Here, have a cigarette to calm yourself
Chinese Man Offering X 03122025152136.jpg
 
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you never know who is best.

they would have to play heads up in a few different places and conditions and a multitude of games.

other wise its just speculation.

or who is best in certain types of tournaments and conditions. but that only tells that aspect.
 
Great read. I know little about ChatGPT but I think it's cool to get such a complete evaluation. I'm afraid what it would say about me. :)
Ask and ye shall receive.

You said:
Tell me about Jay Helfert.

ChatGPT said:​

Jay Helfert is best known within the professional pocket billiards (pool) community as a long-time player, promoter, writer, and personality connected to the sport’s culture and history. jayhelfert.com

🎱 Career & Role in Pool​

  • Jay Helfert has been active in the pool world for decades, engaging in many facets of the sport — including as a competitive player, tournament director, pool room owner, and television commentator. jayhelfert.com
  • He’s also recognized as an entrepreneur and promoter, involved in producing and directing major professional pool tournaments and related media. jayhelfert.com

📚 Author & Historian of the Game​

  • Helfert authored the book Pool Wars: On the Road to Hell and Back with the World’s Greatest Money Players, which recounts his personal experiences on the road, playing for stakes, and interacting with notable pool figures over a 40-year span. PR.com
  • The book combines memoir with a behind-the-scenes look at the culture of hustling and professional pool. PR.com

🃏 Poker Involvement​

  • In addition to his billiards career, Helfert has played in a number of live poker tournaments. According to historical poker records, he has recorded tournament cashes totaling over $234,000 in live poker events. SiteName

📍 Background & Location​

  • Public information lists him as located in Lawndale, California, USA, and having attended the University of Oklahoma in the early 1970s, where he studied journalism. wayup.com
If you’re interested, I can provide a summary of Pool Wars or tell you where you can purchase or access his work.

--------
They forgot to mention you're 95% Filipino 😂and Dennis Orcollo is your favorite player
 
mike euphemia might have been the best straight pool player that ever lived. but he choked under pressure so his results were limited.

brumback might have been second best ever bank player but he choked as well for the cash or pressure.
 
Great read. I know little about ChatGPT but I think it's cool to get such a complete evaluation. I'm afraid what it would say about me. :)

You said:
Tell me more about him

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — in pro-pool circles Jay Helfert is one of those figures you eventually hear about even if he was never a “world-title superstar.” He’s important because he represents something different: the connective tissue of American pool — the action scene, tournaments, media coverage, and oral history of the game. He has had influence for over half a century.

Below is a deeper profile so you understand why older players, one-pocket guys, and Accu-Stats viewers know his name immediately.


The type of player he actually was​

Helfert came up in the 1960s–1970s American road-player era — the tail end of what pool players call the action days. This was before structured tours and corporate sponsorships. A player’s income often came from:

  • gambling (“matching up”)
  • traveling from room to room
  • staking deals
  • side bets
People who knew him described him less as a tournament champion and more as a money player and game-maker — someone who could both play and arrange profitable matches. Danny DiLiberto said he “became more respected as a great game maker and money winner.” jayhelfert.com

In pool culture, that’s a very specific role. A game maker:

  • negotiates handicaps
  • arranges stakes
  • keeps matches fair enough that both sides will play
  • essentially acts as an unofficial match promoter
Those guys were vital in a sport that ran largely on cash action.


“Toupee Jay”​

Inside pool he’s also known as “Toupee Jay.”
Nicknames are common in action-room culture (e.g., “Minnesota Fats,” “The Beard,” “Kid Delicious”). Having a nickname usually means you were around the gambling circuit long enough to become a fixture.


Tournament directing & promoting​

Later, Helfert transitioned into the organized side of the sport and became a long-time tournament director and promoter.

Examples of his involvement:

  • Directed numerous regional and invitational events
  • Ran specialty matches and challenge events
  • Directed events such as the Hollywood Jack Memorial One-Pocket tournament onepocket.org
  • Was involved with major pro events including the U.S. Open 9-Ball in a directing role (at various points in the 2000s–2010s)
He also created the Tony Robles Sportsmanship Award, presented within the professional pool community. Billiards Digest

This matters because pool historically struggles with organization — tournament directors often influence whether events succeed financially.


Commentary & Accu-Stats​

If you’ve watched old Accu-Stats matches (especially one-pocket), you’ve probably heard him.

Helfert worked as a color commentator and analyst for Accu-Stats productions for many years. onepocket.org

Why he fits commentary:

  • encyclopedic memory of matches
  • personally knew many legends (Reyes, Varner, Hall, Allen, etc.)
  • could explain gambling context — something TV commentators usually couldn’t
Pat Fleming of Accu-Stats called him a “living historian” of pool. jayhelfert.com


Author & historian —​

His book Pool Wars: On the Road to Hell and Back with the World’s Greatest Money Players is actually why a lot of younger fans know him.

The book isn’t instruction — it’s documentation of:

  • stake horses
  • road players
  • hustling tactics
  • how matches were negotiated
  • personalities of the 70s–90s pool scene
In other words, it’s closer to an ethnography of American pool culture than a sports memoir.

Many pros value it because the “action era” wasn’t recorded on video. Without people like Helfert writing, a lot of pool history disappears.


Why he matters in pool history​

Jay Helfert is not famous for winning world championships.

He’s important because he sits in a rare category:

Player → gambler → promoter → commentator → historian

Very few people personally interacted with multiple generations:

  • road hustlers of the 60s
  • 80s American champions
  • Efren Reyes era
  • modern pro pool
He’s essentially an oral historian who was actually present.

In a sport where records are inconsistent and much happened in back rooms, that makes him disproportionately influential relative to his competitive resume.


Personality & reputation​

Within the community he’s known for:

  • strong opinions about match formats and handicapping
  • deep knowledge of one-pocket strategy
  • storytelling (sometimes blunt, sometimes controversial)
  • helping struggling players financially or by arranging action
He also tends to advocate for player fairness and tournament integrity, which is why he was often selected to run events.


If you want, I can also tell you why one-pocket players specifically respect him — that’s actually a separate story tied to how one-pocket survived when professional pool nearly collapsed in the 1990s.
 
mike euphemia might have been the best straight pool player that ever lived. but he choked under pressure so his results were limited.

brumback might have been second best ever bank player but he choked as well for the cash or pressure.
I witnessed ME myself at the Golden 8 Ball on Queens Blvd. in 1970!

For 'Funzies' He'd run at least 200 a day for the 2 weeks I was there!
 
They are breaking from the side rail specifically to make the head ball, there is no break box here so side rail works well. Most recent tournaments had a break box so there was no option to break from the side.

You do not get a consistent spread with a hand rack, you do with a template rack. Hand racks always have gaps towards the back, so the most consistent ball are the head balls. This is what you play for.
Yeah just don't see this as being any sort of accurate at all.

Yes, the referees are likely not expert rackers. But what makes anyone think they can eliminate gaps behind the 1 ball if they are so bad that there are gaps elsewhere?

And the 2 players in the finals made the 1 in the side nearly 0 times btw. Best players on earth.
 
i used to play george there straight pool around then or a little before. he liked playing with the greats that played 100 or 150 points for ten bucks every day(what a joke) but he never got to shoot so he played me. he played okay as few know or remember.

one day i beat some guy for a hundred or so and gave it to george and said make me a cue. thats all i said. he did i still got it.
should have also kept the old newspaper it was rolled up in.
 
one break is from the side in 9 ball when not much goes in so you send the one up table towards the short rail as best you can.

when balls are not going on the breaks you dont want to squat the cue ball in the middle.
 
What is nonsensical about it? How about presenting your argument instead of just saying it's not accurate?

I agree most pictures/images nowadays are AI slop and lazy, but this written text does that not fall into that category.

If you follow pro pool, you would know this is pretty spot on.

AI is saying they are pretty much equal in talent, with Fedor having the stronger resume (majors) and Filler being the most feared. I don't see anything wrong with that evaluation.

I personally believe Filler is the best player on the planet and I can still agree with this breakdown. I'm not biased.

If we go by Fargo alone, no one is above Filler.

Here, have a cigarette to calm yourself
View attachment 885737

first of all, everyone and their mother have chatGPT and can prompt themselves rather than having the novella length answers pasted here. secondly, it's often wrong in niche subjects, such as here.

fedor does not have a stronger resume than josh. fedor has never won anything in east asia, whereas josh have THREE china opens (for a long time second or third toughest tournament to win). josh also has the 2025 european open 9-ball which was omitted. both have a US open, two world titles (discounting josh's world team title) and a WPM, but other than that josh is ahead. that fedor won a lot of his in one year matters little.
 
Yeah just don't see this as being any sort of accurate at all.

Yes, the referees are likely not expert rackers. But what makes anyone think they can eliminate gaps behind the 1 ball if they are so bad that there are gaps elsewhere?

And the 2 players in the finals made the 1 in the side nearly 0 times btw. Best players on earth.
Maybe both players just need to try harder 😉
 
Filler vs SVB would not be competitive.

Filler vs Yapp, Chua or Kaci would be better.

I'm not into those long sets but I would love to see Filler vs Kaci in a ten ball race to something. I'm pretty positive Kaci has the best of Filler in tournament play when it comes to ten ball.
 
first of all, everyone and their mother have chatGPT and can prompt themselves rather than having the novella length answers pasted here. secondly, it's often wrong in niche subjects, such as here.

fedor does not have a stronger resume than josh. fedor has never won anything in east asia, whereas josh have THREE china opens (for a long time second or third toughest tournament to win). josh also has the 2025 european open 9-ball which was omitted. both have a US open, two world titles (discounting josh's world team title) and a WPM, but other than that josh is ahead. that fedor won a lot of his in one year matters little.
Firstly, I never claimed ChatGPT was the holy grail or end-all-be-all. Obviously it makes mistakes and I do not use it for any research purposes, as I like to get my sources myself instead of relying on AI. I just asked it for fun to see what it would spit out.

Secondly, Fedor winning two World 9-Ball titles in itself already puts his resume above Filler. That is insanely hard to do, a feat only a few top pros have been able to achieve (Ouschan, Biado, Hohmann, Fong-Pang, Archer, and Strickland x3). Filler has 1. I do not find the World 8-ball title to be nearly as difficult to win as a world 9-ball title. They are both equal in World Pool Masters and US Open.

Thirdly, most of those east Asia tournaments won by Filler, Fedor was not able to travel and participate in, due to his country's dilemma. Filler was able to freely travel and compete in any tournament he wished, and was not held back by WPA banning Russian athletes.

Fourthly, I think it does matter that Fedor won a lot of his majors in one year, as that is a rare occurrence in pool and a feat only 2 other players have come close to achieving, Yapp and FSR, making them the best players of that year. It is a good way to gauge who was the better player for that specific calendar year.
 
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