The CARBON FIBER Shaft With the LEAST Cue Ball DEFLECTION

[dr_dave]

FYI, I just posted a new video that tests and compare the cue ball deflection performance of a collection of LD carbon fiber shafts, including Predator Revo, JFlowers SMO, Triple Sixty TS1, and Wheat State Gen 5. Which one do you think will win the lowest deflection award? Check it out:

Contents:

• 0:00 - Intro
• 0:22 - Background
• 0:56 - CB Deflection Testing
• ---- 3:38 - test shots for each shaft
• 5:14 - Natural Pivot Length Tests
• 8:12 - Results

Supporting Resources:

• shafts tested: 11.8mm Predator Revo,12.5mm JFlowers SMO, 11.9mm Triple Sixty TS1, 11.8mm Wheat State Gen 5
• cue testing results: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/squirt/published-data/
• cue natural pivot length testing: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/
• Back-Hand English (BHE): https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/sidespin/bhe-fhe/
• bridge length recommendations: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/bridge/length/
• System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
• squirt, swerve, and throw effects: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/sidespin/aim/effects/
• LD shaft advantages and disadvantages: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/cue/low-squirt/
• carbon fiber (CF) shaft advantages: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/cue/carbon/
• rail ruler template: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/resource_files/rail_ruler.pdf
• rail cue guide: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/resource_files/rail_cue_guide.pdf

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!

 

[slide13]

This is interesting, especially the J Flowers results because I kinda feel like my Jacoby Black v4 shaft does the same. Very low deflection at slow speed but has noticeably more deflection at higher speed. I'd be curious to see if it had similar results if you're ever able to test one of them. Love the feel of I get from the Black v4 and the deflection at low speed is no problem, but high speed shots do challenge me more than I remember from when I was playing with a Revo.


Definitely makes me want to get a Wheat State shaft to try out, I have a jump cue from him and it's fantastic!

 

[dr_dave]

This is interesting, especially the J Flowers results because I kinda feel like my Jacoby Black v4 shaft does the same. Very low deflection at slow speed but has noticeably more deflection at higher speed. I'd be curious to see if it had similar results if you're ever able to test one of them. Love the feel of I get from the Black v4 and the deflection at low speed is no problem, but high speed shots do challenge me more than I remember from when I was playing with a Revo.


Definitely makes me want to get a Wheat State shaft to try out, I have a jump cue from him and it's fantastic!

These videos take a lot of work, and I can obviously test only what I have and what people send to me. But if somebody else is willing to send me a collection of 3-5 other popular shafts I have not tested yet, I would be happy to do another video in the future. I return the shafts when I am done.

 

[garczar]

Regardless of how lo the squirt is i could never use a shaft under 12.5 in diameter. The difference in squirt is so small you have to go for the size you're comfortable with.

 

[dr_dave]

Regardless of how lo the squirt is i could never use a shaft under 12.5 in diameter. The difference in squirt is so small you have to go for the size you're comfortable with.

Good point. I use an open bridge, so the size really doesn't matter to me; although, I do care about the amount of deflection. I haven't changed that (first with the Predator Z2 and then the Revo) for many years.

 

[Lowell]

Cool! I hope to see a video like this some day for the various wood shafts marketed as LD, would be interesting.

 

[skor]

Predator claim that the Revo 12.9 is the lowest deflection shaft between the Revo shafts.
your finding in the table that you show there, tells a different story, either you are wrong or Predator are wrong or maybe there is an error in the test, after all you are human and you can't shoot five or 20 shots at the exact same speed hitting the CB at the exact same point.
This why I don't like these kind of test I prefer to setup real shots that come up in a game, and seeing how much you pocket a ball to the side of the pocket or completely missing it will tell a better story.

I have the Revo 12.9, the SMO 12.5, Cynergy 12.5, Rhino 12.5, I also tested Revo 12.4 and Mezz Ignite 12.2
In my opinion the Revo 12.9 and the SMO 12.5 are about the same and show the best performance. the Revo 12.4 is next, than Cynergy and the Ignite which are very similar and the Rhino is last.

 

[skor]

The difference in squirt is so small you have to go for the size you're comfortable with.

I disagree, well maybe you are right on a 7ft table with 5 inch pocket but the tighter the pocket and the greater the distance, that small difference means whether you make the ball or miss it.

 

[Paul_#_]

I kinda feel like my Jacoby Black v4 shaft does the same. Very low deflection at slow speed but has noticeably more deflection at higher speed. I'd be curious to see if it had similar results if you're ever able to test one of them

Maybe instead test the Jacoby Black V5 that will debut at the Super Billiards Expo in April

I love it. I want more tests!

Perhaps, collect donations specifically for deflection testing? Or, even farm out the deflection testing to some group?

 

[slide13]

Maybe instead test the Jacoby Black V5 that will debut at the Super Billiards Expo in April

I love it. I want more tests!

Perhaps, collect donations specifically for deflection testing? Or, even farm out the deflection testing to some group?

Is this true? Is a v5 coming that soon? Nice if so, I’ll grab one for sure

 

[bbb]

thanks @dr_dave for doing the video and spending the time and effort to provide the information...
Wheat State Gen 5
who makes them
i could not find info with a serch

 

[dr_dave]

Predator claim that the Revo 12.9 is the lowest deflection shaft between the Revo shafts.
your finding in the table that you show there, tells a different story,

If you want to see the testing of the different size Predator shafts, along with a complete discussion of the results, see:

… you are human and you can't shoot five or 20 shots at the exact same speed hitting the CB at the exact same point.

My stroke is definitely not perfect; but If you watch the shots in the video, you will see that the CB motion (speed and rebound angle changes) are very similar amount the tests.

 

[dr_dave]

I disagree, well maybe you are right on a 7ft table with 5 inch pocket but the tighter the pocket and the greater the distance, that small difference means whether you make the ball or miss it.

… but one can learn to adjust to any amount of CB deflection (especially if using SAWS).

 

[dr_dave]

thanks @dr_dave for doing the video and spending the time and effort to provide the information...
Wheat State Gen 5
who makes them
i could not find info with a serch

You can find them on Facebook.

 

[skor]

… but one can learn to adjust to any amount of CB deflection (especially if using SAWS).

Of course but the more deflection the more the guess work is back into play.
My reference to LD is the Predator 314-2 shaft, anything that deflects more then this is a waste of money.... and so many "low deflection" shafts, wood, hybrid or CF deflects more than the 314...
With the 314-2 and better performance shafts, on most shots, there is no guess work what so ever, you just shoot parallel to the aim line. less guess work = more accuracy

 

[bbb]

You can find them on Facebook.

thanks

 

[dr_dave]

Of course but the more deflection the more the guess work is back into play.

… not if one has a good system or intuition for aiming with sidespin. Having said that, I agree that less CB deflection offers advantages to many people, per the info and video here:

LD shaft advantages and disadvantages​

 

[Rocket354]

These videos take a lot of work, and I can obviously test only what I have and what people send to me. But if somebody else is willing to send me a collection of 3-5 other popular shafts I have not tested yet, I would be happy to do another video in the future. I return the shafts when I am done.

I'm happy to send along a Cynergy 10.5 for testing. I can even put on a tip of choice for consistency between shafts. I'd have to let others volunteer other shafts.

 

[GideonF]

Predator claim that the Revo 12.9 is the lowest deflection shaft between the Revo shafts.
your finding in the table that you show there, tells a different story, either you are wrong or Predator are wrong or maybe there is an error in the test, after all you are human and you can't shoot five or 20 shots at the exact same speed hitting the CB at the exact same point.
This why I don't like these kind of test I prefer to setup real shots that come up in a game, and seeing how much you pocket a ball to the side of the pocket or completely missing it will tell a better story.

I have the Revo 12.9, the SMO 12.5, Cynergy 12.5, Rhino 12.5, I also tested Revo 12.4 and Mezz Ignite 12.2
In my opinion the Revo 12.9 and the SMO 12.5 are about the same and show the best performance. the Revo 12.4 is next, than Cynergy and the Ignite which are very similar and the Rhino is last.

Interesting. My buddy had a 11.8 Cynergy and found that his new Mezz 12.2 had less deflection.

 

[skor]

Interesting. My buddy had a 11.8 Cynergy and found that his new Mezz 12.2 had less deflection.

Don’t know about the 11.8 but vs the 12.5 the Mezz does deflects less but not by much, I find that using both requires the same adjustment to pocket a ball