Ball and Pocket. Period.
At what would you question “non obvious” call pocketing?
- Thread starter Kjackxon
- Start date
You’re correct.
Question: When do you “need” to call a combo?
JABSolstice
Well-known member
No, you're not. Your opponent called, "10 ball" and "corner pocket."
As long as he hit a stripe, he could have gone all around the table hit all 15 balls before the 10 fell in that pocket.
Whether a combo, carom, bank, kick...it doesn't matter. He doesn't have to say combo. Just 10 ball in that pocket and make a legal hit.
Never need to use the word “combo” if that is your question. You only need to call the last ball of the combo and what pocket it goes in.
If instead your question is “are combos non obvious and the last ball must be called?”, then every single time is the answer.
JABSolstice
Well-known member
Never.
This is where I draw the line. I’ve the same guy hit one of my balls first, and claim that the shot was good. The shot was GOOD. I’m saying that some people don’t care about clarity.
Now I have to look at the rules.
WPA 8 Ball Rule 1.7 STANDARD CALL SHOT
In Disciplines in which the shooter is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket
must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such as
cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant. Only one ball may be
called on each shot.
For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made,
so if there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the
shooter should indicate the ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the
shot to be played, he may ask for a call.
In call shot Disciplines, the shooter may choose to call “safety” instead of a ball and
pocket and then play passes to the opponent at the end of the shot. Whether balls are
being spotted after safeties depends on the rules of the particular Discipline.
In Disciplines in which the shooter is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket
must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such as
cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant. Only one ball may be
called on each shot.
For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made,
so if there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the
shooter should indicate the ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the
shot to be played, he may ask for a call.
In call shot Disciplines, the shooter may choose to call “safety” instead of a ball and
pocket and then play passes to the opponent at the end of the shot. Whether balls are
being spotted after safeties depends on the rules of the particular Discipline.
A bad hit is never allowed. Called or not. Duh dude.
DieselPete
Well-known member
I assume at this point that others, and this rule, have answered your question?
On non-obvious shots the call would be ball and pocket, then the cue ball must hit one of their balls first (a fair stroke must be made).
The words combo, bank, carom, kiss, etc., never need to be spoken.
The rule is ball and pocket. It doesn't matter how the ball gets there.
I have been known to make silly call rather than say safety. Shrug sometimes they scratch head and ask , What? If they are friendly I will explain my inability to say the S word.
Wrong - Stick with the WPA definition of called shot.
DieselPete
Well-known member
The definition that you shared can literally be reduced to:
Call the ball
Call the Pocket
Make a legal hit
Whether it gets there by bank, combo, kiss, carom, etc., is IRRELEVANT.
fuggles is correct. It does not matter how the called ball gets to the called pocket, assuming a legal hit.
I’ve already cited the WPA rule.
Furthermore, BCA rule 4.2 cites the following:
“Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket.”
What rule are you citing? Forget about opinions and cite me a WPA/BCA rule.
Otherwise we’re done.
DieselPete
Well-known member
You seem a little frustrated, and I'm not sure why.
BCA 4.2 is telling you WHEN to call a non-obvious shot. If it is a bank or combination you should call the ball and the pocket. You do not have to say "bank" or "combo." You simply indicate the ball and the intended pocket.
If I am banking the 5, I just indicate, "5 in this pocket" and then I shoot the bank.
If I am playing the 4-5 combo, I just say, "5 in the corner" and shoot the combo. The words "four" or "combo" never come out of my mouth.
That's not an opinion. Those are the rules you are citing.
BCA 4.2 is telling you WHEN to call a non-obvious shot. If it is a bank or combination you should call the ball and the pocket. You do not have to say "bank" or "combo." You simply indicate the ball and the intended pocket.
If I am banking the 5, I just indicate, "5 in this pocket" and then I shoot the bank.
If I am playing the 4-5 combo, I just say, "5 in the corner" and shoot the combo. The words "four" or "combo" never come out of my mouth.
That's not an opinion. Those are the rules you are citing.
OK - No argument here. You have the last word as you’re citing that rule.
WPA rule:
In Disciplines in which the shooter is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such ascushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant. Only one ball may becalled on each shot.
I got it!
It’s the interpretation and not the rule. You’re telling me that you don’t need to call combos. I get it!
Assuming any other animal thinks the same way as you do, speaks loudly about yourself and lack of experience, and that's the simple.Edit: Sorry about the title goof
The game is 8 ball call shot using standard rules. Obvious clear path shots need not to be called. Obstructed shots, banks, carom, and combinations must be (ball and pocket) called.
Backstory:
I’m in a match with an opponent, who gets upset when I asked what pocket he’s playing. He doesn’t call or point out his pockets, and typically assumes that I already know where he is shooting.
In this case, my opponent is shooting the 10 ball into the corner pocket. The 15 ball is partially blocking the 10 ball. He calls out “10 ball”, at which point I ask which pocket. He tells me the corner pocket, then proceeds to completely miss the 10 ball. The cue ball caroms off the 15, then nudges the 10 ball into the pocket.
I asked him “Did you intentionally combo the 10 ball?” He replied “I call my ball and pocket - doesn’t matter how it got there.”
I didn’t argue, and I didn’t call him off the shot when he answered my first question. It does bring up a point. Was I justified to have called the foul as he did not specify the combo? I know he call the ball and pocket. It’s just that the shot wasn’t obvious. When I miss my called ball, it’s ball in hand to my opponent no question. I typically will ask after a questionable shot the shooter’s intent. and yield to the shooter.
This shot was so close to slop, that I had to ask him before he shot.
Edit: I know that calling someone over would have kept this from escalating. I don’t like playing with people who look for controversy. Do I need to carry a rule book to matches?
chao
I'm by no means saying this to hurt, it's just how life rolls in ALL aspects of dealing with others.
Land of hard knocks was in play. Hopefully you've learned from this experience.