Drop Pockets vs Ball Return Tables in Tournaments

robertod said:
Ok so drop pockets are not good for straight pool. Not sure what the chances are of this happening in,8., 9 or 10 ball.
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If you watch older 14.1 tournaments - the old timers including Mosconi etc . Always were sure to continuously empty bottom corner pockets as balls accumulated in them . A pocketed ball bouncing back onto the table was a missed ball .

Not much of an issue in rotation games- 9 or 10 ball - but could sometimes be in 8 ball.
 
bbb said:
Still don’t see where there would be much interference, but you’re entitled to your opinion
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Do you happen to notice how clearly you can hear the cue contacting the cue ball, balls hitting other balls, and balls going into pockets? I think they are using directional mics and probably software to scrub the background music out. Ball return noise would probably interfere with that. It is actually quite a sensitive mic to pick up the sound of the cue hitting the ball etc.
 
Badpenguin said:
Do you happen to notice how clearly you can hear the cue contacting the cue ball, balls hitting other balls, and balls going into pockets? I think they are using directional mics and probably software to scrub the background music out. Ball return noise would probably interfere with that. It is actually quite a sensitive mic to pick up the sound of the cue hitting the ball etc.
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ok if you say so
 
most of the old tables were leather drop pockets. they certainly in your house are much quieter and that's what i have in mine.
other wise you cant shoot when someone is sleeping nearby.

in open pool rooms it doesnt matter so much but in a room with no carpet and low ceilings it does sound louder for sure. but not so much it annoys you.

but many of the drop pocket tables are plastic pockets and they are load compared to leather. so the ball return isnt all the noise.

although i don't see any commercial or tournament venues worried about noise from the tables. there is much more extraneous noise than that.
 
dreamhouse said:
Why do the large tournaments like the US Open, Florida Open, and others, use drop pocket tables?

They seem to exclusively use drop pockets every year. It seems like a ball return would save time for the referee to rack, rather than manually removing balls from every pocket each frame.

Is there a practical or technical reason why drop pockets are used for the largest events?
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Simple.. it’s the noise. The have a mic there and it would sound terrible
 
bbb said:
Still don’t see where there would be much interference, but you’re entitled to your opinion
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It's a recording fact. The mics respond to the mechanical transients of coin ops and ball returns "instantaneously". People with generally aged hearing, have a smoother - less sudden audio response which will fade into an ignorable noise floor.
The more noisy tables in operation, the more noise that has to be addressed. Add digital streaming. I know little about this - I don't even play with my wifi BUT there is one obvious obstacle involved:
Band width.
All this extra noise has to be removed or at least subdued because it becomes part of the stream "size". You may be left with a glitchy or even broken stream to um, ignore.

Now my opinion. I like a solid sounding table. Million dollar matches on tables that thud is a no no. Ball returns, well that's a ball at a time not hundreds having the ride of their life.
 
bbb said:
interesting replies from AI on 2 different browsers.....:eek::oops:
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No, it is not a foul if the cue ball enters a pocket and subsequently pops back out onto the playing surface. According to standard rulesets like APA and BCA, the cue ball is only considered pocketed (and thus a foul/scratch) if it comes to rest in the pocket.
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    Cue Ball Pops Out of Pocket — Is It a Foul?​

    Yes — if the cue ball goes into a pocket and then pops out, it is still considered a foul (a scratch), and your opponent will receive ball‑in‑hand.

    Why it’s a foul​

    In pool, a scratch is defined as the cue ball being pocketed or leaving the table after a shot www.wpa-pool.com+1. The rules do not require the cue ball to remain in the pocket once it enters — if it leaves the pocket and comes back onto the table, the foul has already occurred. The key point is that the cue ball entered a pocket during your shot, which is illegal under the World Pool‑Billiard Association (WPA) and Billiard Congress of America (BCA) rules.
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I think there are a few one hole players that will second this, there are a couple of shots in one pocket where the CB does in fact go into the pocket and come back out. These are desperation shots to clear a hole when nothing else will work. I've always considered them to be some of the best shots I've ever made or seen made.
Now I know it's a foul?? 😭😉
 
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I've only seen this on MR events. The smaller streamers use whatever table is at the venue, which these days is 95% a Diamond Pro-Am with a ball return. I assume its because MR has a lot more mics near the table than the other guys.

Put me down for the sound as well being the reason.

There were some early TAR Studio matches on a Pro-Am coin op, which is even louder than the standard pro-am. We'd hear the ball rolling in the mechanism and then popping out on every single shot.

Does anyone know how MR modifies the Pro-Am to be drop pocket? Do they stuff the pockets on site, or does Diamond special make them for them?
 
philly said:
I love drop pockets.
Keep moving get your steps in.

Unless I'm in a tournament I rarely sit down. I understand that you can burn about 100 calories an hour playing pool if you don't sit down especially if you are walking around the table pulling balls out of pockets. 4 hour session, 400 calories. Little by little, steady as she goes. It's just math.
Five 4 hour sessions a week is 2000 calories burned. That's over 100,000 calories burned in a year.
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I find it funny when I hear players complain about having to walk around the table to retrieve balls. It's 30ft.

Funnier still are the same guys who walk half-way around the table three times just to judge each stop shot from four different positions.
 
For 9 ball I have no preference. For 1 pocket and banks I don't like drop pockets at all, because the score is not visible at a glance. The players will usually leave their balls in their hole and not use the ball holders on the end of the table at all. When the holder starts getting full, they will then use the side pocket as well. So to find the score you must minimally go to two pockets plus do math.
 
Island Drive said:
Yep, and likely easier/less costly to set up and break down.
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Diamond delivers tables to tournaments already assembled and set to go.

Diamond hasn’t “set up or broke down” tables in ages other than putting the legs on.

They tilt them onto a cart whether they are “drop pocket” or “ball return” or on a hi-lo.
 
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