Have you ever known any players who played really good with the heavy (mud) cue ball, that you see on so many Valley coin op tables?

big balls and small balls depending on how the table returned the cue ball what they used..

i loved it as i never use draw/ or only a tiny amount and make it look difficult when gambling with an unknown.
as that is the tip off of how good you are.
the big ball was better as most decenet players had trouble figuring where to hit the object ball in their vision.

the small ball good players could draw it fine, as the tables were smaller so didnt have to move the cue ball as much.
Easier to hide your speed w the big rock.
 
bakersfield bob was the best as he wasnt the same speed as the top players mentioned that played super bar speed. he was good but more of a very good shortstop but on the bar table few could beat him.

but jay could clock him the best as he hung out some at jay's pool room in bakersfield ca.
A decent shortstop is liable to beat anybody on home turf especially if they catch a gear.
 
A decent shortstop is liable to beat anybody on home turf especially if they catch a gear.

Years, many years, ago I made a US Open winner acknowledge that on here. Been decades, he hasn't forgotten yet!(grin)

I raced dirt track and got into a lot of mischief with a man. We were working like dogs one day and stopped on the way home for a beer. Two guys wanted to play partners for a beer before we got started. One of them broke dry after winning the flip. Bobby ran that rack and seven more on his break! I grabbed him as we went out the door. "We have to talk!" I took care of a little business the next day and hit the road for two weeks the following day.

Another time I went and drug him out of an old dive in the piney woods. He had been playing for three days straight, won over five hundred at three dollars a game! Then an old man that had been watching plucked him like a chicken! He was down to a hundred and a half when I grabbed him and hauled him home. He hardly knew where he was at and had a wife with two small children hungry at home. He was a wild and crazy guy. Could play pool, couldn't manage money or life!

Hu
 
Years, many years, ago I made a US Open winner acknowledge that on here. Been decades, he hasn't forgotten yet!(grin)

I raced dirt track and got into a lot of mischief with a man. We were working like dogs one day and stopped on the way home for a beer. Two guys wanted to play partners for a beer before we got started. One of them broke dry after winning the flip. Bobby ran that rack and seven more on his break! I grabbed him as we went out the door. "We have to talk!" I took care of a little business the next day and hit the road for two weeks the following day.

Another time I went and drug him out of an old dive in the piney woods. He had been playing for three days straight, won over five hundred at three dollars a game! Then an old man that had been watching plucked him like a chicken! He was down to a hundred and a half when I grabbed him and hauled him home. He hardly knew where he was at and had a wife with two small children hungry at home. He was a wild and crazy guy. Could play pool, couldn't manage money or life!

Hu
Sounds like a bunch of the players I knew.
 
I first learned to play pool in my early 20s on bar tables with a big heavy cue ball (whether you call it a mudball or not officially). It definitely was difficult to draw the ball and cut shots were different (not sure in what way- but I certainly had to adjust when first playing with standard cue balls).

There was a guy at the 8 Ball Saloon in Ann Arbor, MI named Leonard Gustafson who ran the weekly tournaments- he was great with the big cue ball- took a great player to beat him. On tables with a regular cue ball or 9 footers, he looked basically like a slightly above average player, but on those bar tables with the big cue ball, it would take a pro speed player to beat him.
Here's a bizarre thought:
The big ball actually cuts thinner than a regular pool ball. Common knowledge but the epiphany was a stunner. :ROFLMAO:
 
Back in the ’70s, all the bars in my neck of the woods had big balls on the coin-operated pool tables. 25 cents a game. Ah, those were the days. I actually learned to play pool with the big cue ball.

Keith McCready mastered the art of mudball, big balls, red dot, blue dot, and polka dot cue balls, and he’s certainly not a one-trick pony. He can play all games and adjust to equipment faster than most. That’s a skill that was mandatory for road warriors during pool's golden years. You learn to play whatever is in front of you, good, bad, or downright ugly.

I remember a Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour tournament at Ultimate Billiards in Berlin, Connecticut, where the brand-new tables had the fastest cloth ever, Gorina Basault. You barely tapped the balls, and they rolled forever, like they were on ice. Everybody struggled with it. Everybody except Ronnie Alcano and Keith.

And they end up, no surprise, in the finals. The side bets were mounting, and most of the money was on Ronnie. I was one very Nervous Nellie when the race to 9 began, but Keith went 9–0 in less than 15 minutes. It was the fastest race-to-9 final I’ve ever seen in my life. And if they’d been playing with mudballs, I think Keith and Ronnie still would have been in that final. Ronnie went on to win the World Pool Championship in Philippines versus Ralf Souquet a few years later.

Ronnie and Keith both had the ability to adjust quickly to unfamiliar equipment, and it is a skill set in pool. When Keith wakes up, I'll ask him for a few tips on how to play with the mudball. Keith likes to use english, and his cue of choice is a wood shaft, so his advice might be outdated, but you never know. Stay tuned!

Here’s Keith and Ronnie with their beautiful trophies, presented by Ultimate Billiards owner Pete Genovese, who was a pretty darn good player himself!

View attachment 928956

The look on their faces is like right before the picture he said
“Here’s your trophies but I have to owe you guys the prize money till I get it together”.
 
cue ball that I couldn't draw
I've started messing up trying to draw, lately. When I first started trying, I couldn't draw well either. I've started "scooping" the cb. Then next time, I might draw half the table. Then another jump. I do keep my cue chalked so it's not that. Just not as consistent as I know I could be.
 
Been awhile since I have talked about the hippy. Late sixties, early seventies, never saw a time when he wasn't stoned, major stoned. He somehow had an attractive wife and two children. I think a wife that was a friend of mine and his wife were friends, we ran with the same crowd pretty often.

I have long forgotten his name. Didn't know it well at the time. I remember he was from New York. Blond and skinny enough to slide through a keyhole! The main reason I remember him is that he could cut a pool ball. He could cut like a god! When I needed to beat him I would toss in some easy banks and he couldn't beat me. However, I had decided I would be a major beast on the table myself if I could hang with him cutting along with my other play. The games were cheap, beer, that ungodly Boone's Farm wine, or a few dollars, but they were fiercely fought! After awhile entire pool rooms would shut down to watch us play.

The hippie didn't have a nerve in his body and would try any cut shot, making most of them. We started drawing big enough crowds it struck me we should be getting something out of it ourselves, appearance fees. Never did but we held a crowd in a place many a night. Big table or small, he could cut balls end to end as often as not. He would try any cut.

We played for a year or two then one day without any warning to his wife he went back to New York. Might have forgotten he had a family. All I remember about him is that he was about six-six and under a hundred pounds. Over fifty years later I have never seen anyone live or on video that cut better. I never decided if he cut so well because of vision or feel. Five or ten years later his wife was a customer of mine, had moved on to the straight life. Neither of us acknowledged we knew the other.

A strange bit of life that lasted a year or two. Never saw him again after he went back to New York, or maybe I did. There was a guy from New York that looked like him on a crew I worked on years later.

Four of them came down from New York to Baton Rouge LA. Got there at night, rented a house, the cheapest in the newspaper. Went to work before daylight the next day. Got home to find they had rented in the ghetto, the roughest part of the ghetto! They were all pot heads so rolled joints to take to work every morning. Had to burn a few too I suspect. One morning he forgot the bag of pot on the kitchen table. No curtains so it was gone that evening. He grabbed a crack barrel shotgun and walked up and down the block for about an hour waving it around and demanding his pot back. Nobody messed with the crazy white boys from New York after that!

Might have been the same guy I played pool with, might not have been. Different compartments of my life years apart.

Hu
 
Glad I never made it that far west.

Trip story, not mine. Two guys were on the road and stopped in a pool hall. One talked to the counterman while the other hung his elbows on the rail and watched the room.

After a few minutes the one watching the room grabbed the other one's arm. "Let's get the hell out of here before somebody thinks we are pool players!" The game was one pocket, unusual at the time, and in that few minutes he had seen three break and runs on three different tables.

Hu
 
Curious, have you ever known any players who played really good with the heavy (mud) cue ball, that you see on so many Valley coin op tables?



Just makes me wonder about players who were really good with the heavy mud cue ball, and how they went about being able to play good with one. I assume by just getting really good at playing with Center cue ball (no english), and Follow through shots only.
R. Givens' The Eight Ball Bible places much emphasis on the nuances of playing with the heavier cue ball of coin-op bar tables.
 
Been awhile since I have talked about the hippy. Late sixties, early seventies, never saw a time when he wasn't stoned, major stoned. He somehow had an attractive wife and two children. I think a wife that was a friend of mine and his wife were friends, we ran with the same crowd pretty often.

I have long forgotten his name. Didn't know it well at the time. I remember he was from New York. Blond and skinny enough to slide through a keyhole! The main reason I remember him is that he could cut a pool ball. He could cut like a god! When I needed to beat him I would toss in some easy banks and he couldn't beat me. However, I had decided I would be a major beast on the table myself if I could hang with him cutting along with my other play. The games were cheap, beer, that ungodly Boone's Farm wine, or a few dollars, but they were fiercely fought! After awhile entire pool rooms would shut down to watch us play.

The hippie didn't have a nerve in his body and would try any cut shot, making most of them. We started drawing big enough crowds it struck me we should be getting something out of it ourselves, appearance fees. Never did but we held a crowd in a place many a night. Big table or small, he could cut balls end to end as often as not. He would try any cut.

We played for a year or two then one day without any warning to his wife he went back to New York. Might have forgotten he had a family. All I remember about him is that he was about six-six and under a hundred pounds. Over fifty years later I have never seen anyone live or on video that cut better. I never decided if he cut so well because of vision or feel. Five or ten years later his wife was a customer of mine, had moved on to the straight life. Neither of us acknowledged we knew the other.

A strange bit of life that lasted a year or two. Never saw him again after he went back to New York, or maybe I did. There was a guy from New York that looked like him on a crew I worked on years later.

Four of them came down from New York to Baton Rouge LA. Got there at night, rented a house, the cheapest in the newspaper. Went to work before daylight the next day. Got home to find they had rented in the ghetto, the roughest part of the ghetto! They were all pot heads so rolled joints to take to work every morning. Had to burn a few too I suspect. One morning he forgot the bag of pot on the kitchen table. No curtains so it was gone that evening. He grabbed a crack barrel shotgun and walked up and down the block for about an hour waving it around and demanding his pot back. Nobody messed with the crazy white boys from New York after that!

Might have been the same guy I played pool with, might not have been. Different compartments of my life years apart.

Hu
Thanks for the yarn Hu!!
Always look forward to yours. 👍🏻
 
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