What are the pool amateur governing bodies up to these days?

[sjm]

The amateur bodies of pool are the biggest reason that our sport is still thriving in America. Nobody is suggesting they are perfect and yes, they are in it for the money, but they give structure to pool competition that keeps amateurs heavily involved in our sport, year after year.

The disconnect between the amateur ranks and the pro ranks goes back several decades, but to suggest that the amateur organizations must be held accountable for the state of pro pool in America or elsewhere is not reasonable. Any amateur organization that feels investment in the pro game serves its business model will do so, and others are not likely to invest.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I've never been in a league. I can't imagine joining one with rules like that. Don't see the point of playing 9 ball with those rules.

Points rotation is a very old game. 61 points wins the rack.

Nine ball is too hard for the average league player, and there is very little incentive under the standard rules to make anything before the five ball. Giving points for each ball is the right thing to do for the target group of players.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think the major reason amateur league pool in the US will not do much to raise the level of pro pool in the US is that the players can't even participate -- for the most part -- until they are 21. I believe the APA ended its junior events, not sure about the other leagues as far as junior development goes.

In my experience, amateur league players have little interest in watching the pros.

 

[briankenobi]

I think the major reason amateur league pool in the US will not do much to raise the level of pro pool in the US is that the players can't even participate -- for the most part -- until they are 21. I believe the APA ended its junior events, not sure about the other leagues as far as junior development goes.

In my experience, amateur league players have little interest in watching the pros.

You are correct in that amateur league players don't want the pros a lot.

As far as juniors goes, the VNEA still has a junior program. In fact, their junior nationals is apparently the largest juniors event in the country, if not globally. But you are also true in that most of the venues for league pool is in places with 21 and up

 

[Good Sam]

It seems Fedor Gorst was impressed with his time at APA nationals.

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[Sooner32]

Points rotation is a very old game. 61 points wins the rack.

Nine ball is too hard for the average league player, and there is very little incentive under the standard rules to make anything before the five ball. Giving points for each ball is the right thing to do for the target group of players.

Well like I said. I can't imagine joining a league like that. If nine ball is too hard, then take up checkers.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If nine ball is too hard, then take up checkers.

The vast majority of people who play pool do not play well enough to run a rack of nine ball. Should they leave the game?

 

[Sooner32]

The vast majority of people who play pool do not play well enough to run a rack of nine ball. Should they leave the game?

I realize that's how my comment sounds but it's not what I meant. Checkers was a poor choice of words.

If I were in a league I would be exactly the type of player you are talking about. I can break and run 5 or 6 often but I rarely run a rack any longer. I would be happy running one rack per session at this point but I seem to find a way to mess it up even if the shots are fairly easy. I still don't want special rules made for my sucky play other than a spot if I am going to play someone for money.

If they are changing the rules of the game so far that you can win a game and not make the 9, then it really does not have a lot to do with 9 ball.

I do not believe I am the target audience for leagues. I am not searching for social interaction or a night out. If I feel the need to compete, I bet there are at least 50 guys on this site alone that would line up to take my money.

 

[briankenobi]

I realize that's how my comment sounds but it's not what I meant. Checkers was a poor choice of words.

If I were in a league I would be exactly the type of player you are talking about. I can break and run 5 or 6 often but I rarely run a rack any longer. I would be happy running one rack per session at this point but I seem to find a way to mess it up even if the shots are fairly easy. I still don't want special rules made for my sucky play other than a spot if I am going to play someone for money.

If they are changing the rules of the game so far that you can win a game and not make the 9, then it really does not have a lot to do with 9 ball.

I do not believe I am the target audience for leagues. I am not searching for social interaction or a night out. If I feel the need to compete, I bet there are at least 50 guys on this site alone that would line up to take my money.

And you may not be the target audience for leagues, and that's perfectly fine.

As far as the 9 ball goes, you still win the individual games by potting the 9. It's winner break so when you win the game, you break the next game. The overall match is points though. You could have a 65-45 match race where all the balls equal one point and the 9 ball is worth 2 points.

The person that was quoted or talked about in the original post was confused on what winning a game and winning the match means I feel.

 

[APA Operator]

other than a spot if I am going to play someone for money

Why do you need a spot to be competitive for money and they don't need a spot to be competitive in a league? That's all it is. It's handicapping based on points instead of games because games in 9-Ball is not a reliable reflection of the amount of "work" each player did. Only two for the nine seems low to some until they realize that it's not just two. It's two plus the break, meaning if you break and run 5 or 6 often it can be a 15-point swing in the match score when playing someone of equal ability - the 7 or 8 points you get plus the 7 or 8 your opponent didn't get. That's often overlooked by those who strategize strictly by point. When you play someone better or worse than you a single 9-Ball can make up the entire spot or double it, so who wins the games is still important.

 

[Jimmorrison]

The first sentence, in the above post, all day every day!

 

[Sooner32]

Why do you need a spot to be competitive for money and they don't need a spot to be competitive in a league? That's all it is.

I don't care for that spot. I do not care about the "amount of work" a player does. Who decided the purpose of the game of 9 ball was to make sure everyone was equally compensated for the amount of work they put in?

There is no point in trying to convince me of anything. I am sure the APA will do fine without my endorsement. I most certainly am not the audience for this or for any league. I only originally commented because someone said you could win a game of 9 ball on points even if you didn't make the 9, which I found strange. I will refrain from commenting on league threads from now on because I add nothing useful and there are plenty of people that do enjoy leagues.

Reasons for me to never join a league
1, as stated in this thread, not a fan of a points system
2, probably am in bed while everyone is playing
3, do not play on bar boxes
4, would leave the first time a hip hop song came on

 

[APA Operator]

I don't care for that spot. I do not care about the "amount of work" a player does. Who decided the purpose of the game of 9 ball was to make sure everyone was equally compensated for the amount of work they put in?

That's all ANY spot is. Less "work" for the weaker player. I don't even understand the second part. It sounds like something you say when you're too flummoxed to make sense. The whole point of any handicap system is to compensate unequally, and what exactly is the "purpose of the game of 9-Ball"?

Nobody's trying to convince you of anything. I just asked why you think a spot in a money game is any different. You made the statements below in consecutive sentences (post #28):

I still don't want special rules made for my sucky play other than a spot if I am going to play someone for money.

If they are changing the rules of the game so far that you can win a game and not make the 9, then it really does not have a lot to do with 9 ball.

You do realize the irony of what you did there, right? Your money game spots change the rules of the game and literally make it so you can win a game and not make the 9. APA scoring does not, so by your logic APA 9-Ball has more to to with 9-Ball than your money games do.

But hey, you do you. If you have a choice, do what you enjoy and don't do what you don't enjoy. I pray you always have a choice.

 

[trob]

You seem to be asking about CSI, APA, ACS, TAP and NAPA. Is that right?

If so, the large events in Las Vegas seem to be larger than ever. The CSI annual event has about 13,000 players present. Several pro events in the Predator PBS are held alongside the amateur events.

I think CSI (BCAPL and USAPL) is the only amateur league using FargoRate.

And it’s terrible. I played a couple sessions of it and went back to apa.

Tto echo what Bob Jewett said, amateur pool leagues are doing fine. They cater to the largest section of those that play pool, the amateurs. I attend many amateur state and national events either in a sponsor booth or doing those trickshot exhibitions as someone spoke of. And people are happy where they are. The overwhelming majority of those players view pool as a hobby. It's something fun to do with their buddies. It's a night or two out of the house to go drinking and play pool. That is all pool will ever be to them, which is perfectly fine. This is a perspective that many who complain about pool leagues and capped tournaments fail to see.

Agreed. Not everyone has to be all consumed with pool like I have been for 35 years. Some people just want to show up on a league night play some pool..hang with some friends and have a good time. Those people are still buying cues and cases and all the things. I don’t put them down or complain about the handicap I have to give them. The handicap makes it interesting. The vast majority of people I play on an apa night wouldn’t be a fun or a challenge if it was a straight up match. Does it hold people back from getting better? Maybe. But pool leagues just like life is a double edged sword. Always a good and bad.

 

[trob]

Well like I said. I can't imagine joining a league like that. If nine ball is too hard, then take up checkers.

Small minded people like you will never grow the game.. you go play checkers so maybe the game has a chance.

I don't care for that spot. I do not care about the "amount of work" a player does. Who decided the purpose of the game of 9 ball was to make sure everyone was equally compensated for the amount of work they put in?

There is no point in trying to convince me of anything. I am sure the APA will do fine without my endorsement. I most certainly am not the audience for this or for any league. I only originally commented because someone said you could win a game of 9 ball on points even if you didn't make the 9, which I found strange. I will refrain from commenting on league threads from now on because I add nothing useful and there are plenty of people that do enjoy leagues.

Reasons for me to never join a league
1, as stated in this thread, not a fan of a points system
2, probably am in bed while everyone is playing
3, do not play on bar boxes
4, would leave the first time a hip hop song came on

The point of it is is to get people to play and spend money on the game who pool isn’t the number 1 priority in life. Without the spot I would run over most these people I play. With the spot it makes it challenging. So yes you get 1 point for each ball and 2 points for the 9 ball. You get a point total based on your skill level. So I’m a 9 that means I have to go to 75. Then you just start playing 9 ball like you normally do. It’s actually a fun way to play. People like you if we are ever going to grow the game and bring in the casual player have to open their mind to other things. You may not like leagues and that’s ok. No reason to shit on people who do. I just left the usapl .. they play 8 ball with a points total system that is terrible and shown me imo Fargo is shit for amateur players but a bunch of people are playing in it and having a good time so good for them.

 

[Sooner32]

That's all ANY spot is. Less "work" for the weaker player. I don't even understand the second part. It sounds like something you say when you're too flummoxed to make sense. The whole point of any handicap system is to compensate unequally, and what exactly is the "purpose of the game of 9-Ball"?

Nobody's trying to convince you of anything. I just asked why you think a spot in a money game is any different. You made the statements below in consecutive sentences (post #28):


You do realize the irony of what you did there, right? Your money game spots change the rules of the game and literally make it so you can win a game and not make the 9. APA scoring does not, so by your logic APA 9-Ball has more to to with 9-Ball than your money games do.

But hey, you do you. If you have a choice, do what you enjoy and don't do what you don't enjoy. I pray you always have a choice.

It seems clear you love the APA. Great GO Team and all. I do not have to like the point system as a spot. I am not the only person that doesn't like it.

I do not give one flying fuck about growing the sport.