Controversial Double Hit? Team Biado vs. Team Raga – 10-Ball Doubles

Was it a good hit?

  • Total voters
    5
july9x

july9x

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This was a very close match, with Biado and Alcano leading 13–11 when a big controversial shot happened. What followed was completely unexpected!

Most people will probably say it was a good shot, but I'd love to hear Dr. Dave's @dr_dave take on it. Could you analyze the shot and help clear up whether it was legal under the rules?

Here's the exact moment:


Curious to hear what everyone thinks!
 
july9x said:
This was a very close match, with Biado and Alcano leading 13–11 when a big controversial shot happened. What followed was completely unexpected!

Most people will probably say it was a good shot, but I'd love to hear Dr. Dave's @dr_dave take on it. Could you analyze the shot and help clear up whether it was legal under the rules?

Here's the exact moment:


Curious to hear what everyone thinks!
Click to expand...
No FKN clue. Close caption this bitch and I will provide my opinion.
 
they're arguing about intentionality i presume. both unintentional and intentional miscues are technically bad hits, but the former doesn't have to be a foul. it was a goofy shot, but i doubt it was intentional
 
looks like an unintentional miscue to me, he was planning to cut the ball to the top left corner. so not a foul
 
He knew the cut would billiard the 9. The radical inside was so he could shoot directly at the thinnest hit possible. I don't think the miscue was considered foul even though the sound was all wood. But who knows?
 
To my eyes the CB heads along the tangent line, consistent with no double hit. I cannot see the tip hitting the 7 (or changing its path) and I also cannot see the CB hitting the shaft. So unintentional miscue to me and legal shot.

What was determined?
 
straightline said:
He knew the cut would billiard the 9. The radical inside was so he could shoot directly at the thinnest hit possible. I don't think the miscue was considered foul even though the sound was all wood. But who knows?
Click to expand...

dr dave has a video on it. the issue has become controversial due to refs calling double hit foul on miscues, going against pool tradition (but with science, i guess). almost all miscues touch the ferrule.

but i think in this case they're arguing about intention
 
I watched to the end of the clip. They voided the game. Raga broke a new rack - same score. They ran out, broke again and then somebody on Biado's side pulled up and they called it off.
Wish I knew what that Espinola guy was saying. Captioning knew as little English as I do Filipino. lol...
 
july9x said:
This was a very close match, with Biado and Alcano leading 13–11 when a big controversial shot happened. What followed was completely unexpected!

Most people will probably say it was a good shot, but I'd love to hear Dr. Dave's @dr_dave take on it. Could you analyze the shot and help clear up whether it was legal under the rules?

Here's the exact moment:


Curious to hear what everyone thinks!
Click to expand...
This was a televised event? Pretty loose dress code. I heard the miscue, but didn't see a double hit.
 
july9x said:
This was a very close match, with Biado and Alcano leading 13–11 when a big controversial shot happened. What followed was completely unexpected!

Most people will probably say it was a good shot, but I'd love to hear Dr. Dave's @dr_dave take on it. Could you analyze the shot and help clear up whether it was legal under the rules?

Here's the exact moment:


Curious to hear what everyone thinks!
Click to expand...

Does anybody know if they were playing WPA 10-ball rules?

If so, does anybody know if he called the 7, or did he call the 9?

Or were they using 9-ball rules with 10 balls, where nothing needs to be called?
 
I think it comes down to intention, and I think it's easier to play the shot (either 7 or 9) without a miscue.
 
dr_dave said:
Does anybody know if they were playing WPA 10-ball rules?

If so, does anybody know if he called the 7, or did he call the 9?

Or were they using 9-ball rules with 10 balls, where nothing needs to be called?
Click to expand...
All “standard” 10-ball rules with few exceptions. For this particular match: 10-ball made on the break will be spotted back (usually it is a win but not on this match), cue ball foul only, nothing needs to be called including the 10-ball after the break.

I think team Raga said it was a bad hit on the 7, most likely saying it was a double hit since it was obviously not a scoop shot. Pretty much everyone else said it’s good, they even had a video replay etc.

Looked like at the end, they re-racked and re-played that game and Raga team won the game, now only trailing 1 game 13-12 (instead of 14-11 if shot was good). Race to 17, big swing and all momentum changed, Alcano (and probably his side) didn’t like it and decided to stop the match and canceled it I guess!
 
I don’t understand when anyone saying “intention” or “unintention” on this case, these are (or were) 4 world class players, Alcano was obviously trying to have a good shot and somehow missed cue. End of the day, it is whether a double hit shot or not. Nothing else matters or can cause a foul. How do you even intentionally miss cue?
 
july9x said:
I don’t understand when anyone saying “intention” or “unintention” on this case, these are (or were) 4 world class players, Alcano was obviously trying to have a good shot and somehow missed cue. End of the day, it is whether a double hit shot or not. Nothing else matters or can cause a foul. How do you even intentionally miss cue?
Click to expand...

there are really not much else to call foul on for espinola there, since miscueing in itself isn't a foul
 
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