3-Fouling a Beginner Level Player in a Weekly Handicap Tournament?

I have no problem 3-fouling a newbie in a tournament. I try not to change my strategy based on my opponent's skill level. That usually gets me in trouble.

I experienced this exact scenario about 10 years ago in a weekly 9-ball tournament. My opponent was a 3 and I was a 4. The ratings went from 3-7 so we were both weak players at the time. He was just starting to get into pool whereas I'd been playing for a few years already but I was trying to transition from barbox to big table. I was much better than him but neither of us were running out that 9 FT Diamond. I was probably only even money to beat the 4 ball ghost on that table. So I got ball in hand with an open table of 9 balls and I figured, what's the point of trying to run out? I three fouled him and he got super pissed. He said I was a chicken shit player for three fouling a lowly 3. I'm a million times better now and I still would have 3 fouled him. I'm there for the cash, not to make sure everyone has fun. If you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen...
 
ChrisinNC said:
In a poolroom’s weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament with 5 different handicap rankings (say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from strongest to weakest) how many 4 or 5 ranked players would attempt to 3-foul a 1 ranked beginner level player to try to win a game?

Personally, I would never do it, even if my opponent is on the hill. I may certainly play safeties on them in order to try to obtain ball-in-hand, and if necessary I may even foul them 3 or 4 times in a row if the layout of the balls requires it, but if I can’t figure out a way to win a game against a significantly lower skilled player without having to apply a the 3 consecutive foul loss of game rule on them, I don’t feel I deserve to win.

However, we certainly have some higher ranked players in our tournament that seem to have no problem resorting to this against a beginner level player, and I personally think it’s quite sad. Just curious as to opinions here, and I’m guessing they will be mixed?

If it is handicapped , sometimes it's necessary to 3 foul a weaker player if they get really lucky and get to the hill. It's part of the handicap.
If they are 3 fouling them every game just because they can , it's poor sportsmanship jmo
I won a 8 and under tournament in Phoenix and I don't think I ever broke and run a rack all day. I was an 8 but my shot making was 6 at best because of back and shoulder problems. I played some amazing safes that day.
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I play on a house league where 3 foul is not in effect, so I’m used to playing without it.

I also have recently started playing on some weekly tournaments, honestly not even sure if it’s in effect there as it has yet to come up. I’m often one of the lower skill players there but I’ve been playing a while and know my stuff decently well.

My take is don’t 3 foul a beginning player in a tournament if you don’t have to. We want them to have fun and keep coming back, pool needs more people in it, not fewer. But…I don’t think anyone should sacrifice a win in a tournament to be nice either. So if they’re on the hill and you need to 3 foul them to stay in it, do it.
 
I've told this story before, but here goes;

We have handicaps where you're (for weakest to strongest) a 6,7,8,9,-1,-2,-3,-4

Lowest player gets the 6 ball AND the games the other player has to give up if above 9.

So I'm playing a person that is a 6 and I'm a -3 at the times. So they get the 6,7,8,9 AND 3 games in a race to seven.

They had won the tournament more than once and were in the finals often... they we not a 6... more like an 8.

The TD refused to raise their handicap.

Long story short, as a show of protest I 3 fouled them 7 games in a row to prove my point that I'm losing unless I run out every game.
 
eastcoast_chris said:
I've told this story before, but here goes;

We have handicaps where you're (for weakest to strongest) a 6,7,8,9,-1,-2,-3,-4

Lowest player gets the 6 ball AND the games the other player has to give up if above 9.

So I'm playing a person that is a 6 and I'm a -3 at the times. So they get the 6,7,8,9 AND 3 games in a race to seven.

They had won the tournament more than once and were in the finals often... they we not a 6... more like an 8.

The TD refused to raise their handicap.

Long story short, as a show of protest I 3 fouled them 7 games in a row to prove my point that I'm losing unless I run out every game.
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How does that work? Can they do the 6,7,8 or 9 early? If so it’s brutal for you, even without it, it’s hard
 
Highly unpopular opinion: I'm all for no handicaps. Just practice. Get better.

Save the 'handicapping' for when you want to make your money ;)

A tournament is a tournament. Set an entrance fee that attracts players of the calibre you want or expect to attend.
 
Flakeandrun said:
Highly unpopular opinion: I'm all for no handicaps. Just practice. Get better.

Save the 'handicapping' for when you want to make your money ;)

A tournament is a tournament. Set an entrance fee that attracts players of the calibre you want or expect to attend.
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In smaller markets, you simply can’t generate a large enough field of your regulars that desire / enjoy playing in a weekly tournament if you don’t handicap the players.

Yes, you can and we do hold open non-handicap tournaments as well as tournaments restricted to only B and C ranked players.

The lesser skilled players still enjoy and need the experience of playing matches against the higher skilled players, but they need to have some handicap to have any chance of winning a match, not to mention that the better players also benefit from the added challenge and pressure of needing to play well or at least play smart in order to win a match against a lower skilled player who is afforded a fair handicap.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
In a poolroom’s weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament with 5 different handicap rankings (say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from strongest to weakest) how many 4 or 5 ranked players would attempt to 3-foul a 1 ranked beginner level player to try to win a game?

Personally, I would never do it, even if my opponent is on the hill. I may certainly play safeties on them in order to try to obtain ball-in-hand, and if necessary I may even foul them 3 or 4 times in a row if the layout of the balls requires it, but if I can’t figure out a way to win a game against a significantly lower skilled player without having to apply a the 3 consecutive foul loss of game rule on them, I don’t feel I deserve to win.

However, we certainly have some higher ranked players in our tournament that seem to have no problem resorting to this against a beginner level player, and I personally think it’s quite sad. Just curious as to opinions here, and I’m guessing they will be mixed?
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I would. He/she has got to learn sometime.
 
ChrisinNC said:
In smaller markets, you simply can’t generate a large enough field of your regulars that desire / enjoy playing in a weekly tournament if you don’t handicap the players.

Yes, you can and we do hold open non-handicap tournaments as well as tournaments restricted to only B and C ranked players.

The lesser skilled players still enjoy and need the experience of playing matches against the higher skilled players, but they need to have some handicap to have any chance of winning a match, not to mention that the better players also benefit from the added challenge and pressure of needing to play well or at least play smart in order to win a match against a lower skilled player who is afforded a fair handicap.
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Ahhh pool, the only sport that severely punishes people for getting better.

You can't generate enough interest in a non-handicapped open tourney. It doesn't mean others can't. I would contend that your tourney isn't enjoyable enough. I played in too many local tourneys that weren't limited or handicapped to believe what you wrote.

A tourney that is well run and fair in a fun environment will attract enough players. In my experience, the lower level players are more loyal to a good experience than the higher ranked. I have seen it in foosball and pool, no handicaps, but 75% of the most dedicated regulars had no chance of making the money, much less winning.

What people think they want (handicapped tourneys) is not what they actually want (fun, rewarding time).

A better solution is to offer other incentives, payout to highest 'b' and 'c' players. Put a bounty on the guy who wins a lot. Kick jackasses out.
 
ChrisinNC said:
In smaller markets, you simply can’t generate a large enough field of your regulars that desire / enjoy playing in a weekly tournament if you don’t handicap the players.

Yes, you can and we do hold open non-handicap tournaments as well as tournaments restricted to only B and C ranked players.

The lesser skilled players still enjoy and need the experience of playing matches against the higher skilled players, but they need to have some handicap to have any chance of winning a match, not to mention that the better players also benefit from the added challenge and pressure of needing to play well or at least play smart in order to win a match against a lower skilled player who is afforded a fair handicap.
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If you add enough money to the tournament, guys will start driving 3-4 hours to play. Then you'll end up with a few pros or semi-pros who are exciting to watch. That will generate a lot of spectators and build up the calcutta. Then you'll end up having a bunch of B players join just because they want to spectate so they might as well play while they're there. Also, the better players inspire the weaker players to practice and improve which keeps them coming back.

This was my life back in 2012/2013 when I first was introduced to tournament pool. There were these huge monthly $500 added barbox tournaments that would generate tons of top players (Adam Smith, Shawn Putnam, Billy Thorpe, Alex Olinger, Shane Winters, Shannon Murphy, Danny Smith, etc.). I loved watching those guys play. It was incredible to me and absolutely hooked me on the game. After a few months of watching I started joining the tournaments as dead money since I was there anyways to watch. At first my goal was to win a few games each set. Then my goal was to win a set. Then two sets, and so forth. So these monthly open tournaments got me obsessed with pool and eventually created a monster. I don't think a weekly handicapped tournament could have ever had the same affect on me.
 
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I haven't played in a tournament using 3-foul in a long time, and I'm far from an advanced player... but I do find myself trying to not take undue advantage of true beginners in the tournies or league matches that I do play in.

That doesn't mean I "let up", per se, but if my opponent is really a beginner, I probably won't try and safe them unless I have no other option. I probably won't use the 8-ball break if that's the game we're playing (not only forgoing the possible cheap win, but usually the table is a mess with that break, at least for me). If they're not a real beginner and just a lesser ability player, all that goes out the window.

I'm still gonna try and win, but especially in league, I want those beginners to not get any more discouraged than they already are, and to keep playing. I want our league to thrive, and keeping new players interested is in our leagues best interest.
 
justadub said:
I haven't played in a tournament using 3-foul in a long time, and I'm far from an advanced player... but I do find myself trying to not take undue advantage of true beginners in the tournies or league matches that I do play in.

That doesn't mean I "let up", per se, but if my opponent is really a beginner, I probably won't try and safe them unless I have no other option. I probably won't use the 8-ball break if that's the game we're playing (not only forgoing the possible cheap win, but usually the table is a mess with that break, at least for me). If they're not a real beginner and just a lesser ability player, all that goes out the window.

I'm still gonna try and win, but especially in league, I want those beginners to not get any more discouraged than they already are, and to keep playing. I want our league to thrive, and keeping new players interested is in our leagues best interest.
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Choosing to play a safety against a beginner level player in a handicapped tournament to try to gain BIH is completely different than attempting to 3-foul them to win a game. To me, one is perfectly acceptable, the other isn’t.

Yes, for myself there are a few possible exceptions. One is if your opponent is attempting to get the 9-ball rolling on virtually every shot and the other is if your opponent is acting very disrespectful - not out of ignorance of table etiquette but that they are just like that.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
Choosing to play a safety against a beginner level player in a handicapped tournament to try to gain BIH is completely different than attempting to 3-foul them to win a game. To me, one is perfectly acceptable, the other isn’t.

Yes, for myself there are a few possible exceptions. One is if your opponent is attempting to get the 9-ball rolling on virtually every shot and the other is if your opponent is acting very disrespectful - not out of ignorance of table etiquette but that they are just like that.
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Agreed... and I did say that I wouldn't try to safe them unless I had to. As we all know, two-way shots work very well for this sort of thing. I just have a difficult time trying to completely stitch a real beginner, if I don't have to. A character flaw for me, perhaps, but one that I can live with. ;)

As for the disrespectful folks... I love safe-ing them, and expect that seeing them being 3-fouled would be particularly fun. I love playing safe on the old-school guys that like to complain about safes being chicken-$hit pool.
 
ChrisinNC said:
In a poolroom’s weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament with 5 different handicap rankings (say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from strongest to weakest) how many 4 or 5 ranked players would attempt to 3-foul a 1 ranked beginner level player to try to win a game?

Personally, I would never do it, even if my opponent is on the hill. I may certainly play safeties on them in order to try to obtain ball-in-hand, and if necessary I may even foul them 3 or 4 times in a row if the layout of the balls requires it, but if I can’t figure out a way to win a game against a significantly lower skilled player without having to apply a the 3 consecutive foul loss of game rule on them, I don’t feel I deserve to win.

However, we certainly have some higher ranked players in our tournament that seem to have no problem resorting to this against a beginner level player, and I personally think it’s quite sad. Just curious as to opinions here, and I’m guessing they will be mixed?
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Why hide beginners from what the pros do? Play safe MUCH more often than they've been taught/modeled.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Choosing to play a safety against a beginner level player in a handicapped tournament to try to gain BIH is completely different than attempting to 3-foul them to win a game. To me, one is perfectly acceptable, the other isn’t.
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Funny, because to me they both seem like using superior skill and knowledge to win the game.

Any argument you make about this garbage is moot until you flat-out state that you are willing to lose games on purpose. Maybe you do, based on all the handicapped tourneys you run.

Nobody should plan to win by 3-foul in order to humiliate someone, but if 3-foul is the correct way to play the layout, you are stupid to not take it.
 
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