Vintage 70's Joss BIG PIN - 3/8/10

[PickPocket]

This cue is in (looks like all Original) pretty rough shape. Wrap looks original etc, there is almost no Clear coat left on this thing. Got the 3/8-10 into Wood joint. One original shaft.

Did these ever have Cortland? It's old that's for sure. But it's in ok shape, can these get refinished & have the original wrap saved?

Should an old 70's Block letter big pin get Refinished?

If so, Proficient or Joss for that?

(Edited to add pictures).
What's everyone's thoughts?

Guessing one is 68-72? The other might be 72-74?

 

[WildWing]

This cue is in (looks like all Original) pretty rough shape. Wrap looks original etc, there is almost no Clear coat left on this thing. Got the 3/8-10 into Wood joint. One original shaft. I'll add pictures later, the only one I have doesn't do it justice. So I'm planning to take new pictures soon.

Did these ever have Cortland? It's old that's for sure. But it's in ok shape, can these get refinished & have the original wrap saved?

Should an old 70's Block letter big pin get Refinished?

If so, Proficient or Joss for that?

Some of the early ones had Cortland linen. Yes, it can be refinished, and wrap saved. Should it be refinished? That would be up to you.

Proficient could save the wrap and save the buttplate. Joss would replace both wrap and buttplate. Would recommend Proficient over Joss.

 

[PickPocket]

Some of the early ones had Cortland linen. Yes, it can be refinished, and wrap saved. Should it be refinished? That would be up to you.

Proficient could save the wrap and save the buttplate. Joss would replace both wrap and buttplate. Would recommend Proficient over Joss.

Thank you!

 

[maha]

you might have it ruined by refinishing unless you dont care about value and want a playing cue.

most older cues didnt have a poly finish on them just bare wood. some did.

anyone buying it can get it refinished if they want.

 

[PickPocket]

you might have it ruined by refinishing unless you dont care about value and want a playing cue.

most older cues didnt have a poly finish on them just bare wood. some did.

anyone buying it can get it refinished if

What products might be safe to use to spruce it up, without ruining any of the patina?

 

[Ken_4fun]

I disagree with the "patina" argument. Unless it is really a desirable rare cue, (Gus, Bushka, etc), I would recommend refinishing the cue.

I have heard guys stay the same thing about Meucci cues......guys they arent rare.

Just so you know, the Bushka cue I got was rougher than 2 nights in jail. It was refinished by Pete. Did it kill the value? I doubt it. It isnt super rare (titlist cue). If it was in really good original condition, of course I wouldnt have Pete refinish it. But it was so rough there wasnt huge value as it was.

I dont think that Joss is worth more that the Bushka, and I have sold 100's of cues, and generally refinishing HELPS and doesnt hurt value. The ones that are giving advice ..... well let's just say I dont agree with it.

Ken

 

[PickPocket]

Pictures added.

 

[triley41395]

Pictures added.

MY OPINION...
The one with the blue veneers is in desperate need of a refinish, and in my opinion will increase the value if done correctly. The one with the black veneers needs a refinish also and would increase the value. The one with the black veneers looks like the wrap is an inch longer than the other so it may have been refinish in the past or possibly made that way. Judging by the pictures they don't look to have Cortland. The one with the blue would be smoking looking with a refinish.

 

[maha]

the two on the left have lots of mileage and character you lose that if you refinish.

might make them more valuable but you will have a couple hundred dollars or more in each one.

a refinish can only enhance the appearance which a new buyer could do to his own specs. so really cant improve the value over the added expense.

 

[WildWing]

This cue is in (looks like all Original) pretty rough shape. Wrap looks original etc, there is almost no Clear coat left on this thing. Got the 3/8-10 into Wood joint. One original shaft.

Did these ever have Cortland? It's old that's for sure. But it's in ok shape, can these get refinished & have the original wrap saved?

Should an old 70's Block letter big pin get Refinished?

If so, Proficient or Joss for that?

(Edited to add pictures).
What's everyone's thoughts?

Guessing one is 68-72? The other might be 72-74?

First two are the best. The first is the oldest. 68 to 72? Possibly. Looks like the first two have the original KU bumpers. One of them has a replacement shaft. No telling how good the shafts are, and no telling whether any of them roll straight. But a refinish would not hurt the earlier ones. Don't go to Joss. They'll change everything. Go to Proficient, and they'll save the wrap and everything.

 

[misterpoole]

I have an identical block JOSS signature cue as the one with blue veneers. I think that is a 70's cue. Would look so much better with a refinish.
I don't recognize the other signature. Not a 60's cue.

 

[tduncan]

The first cue and the second cue are cues Danny Made. His logo on both. Nice old cues.

 

[Chopdoc]

The ones that are giving advice ..... well let's just say I dont agree with it.

You're right. But so are others.

Maybe you didn't read @WildWing post #2. He nailed it. It definitely can be done. It's simply up to the owner. Best not to send to Joss because they might (will?) replace the butt cap and wrap. Proficient is the best and/or most popular choice.

Generally, with cues, a refinish does boost the value as you say. But often not much beyond the cost of the work, if at all, on a lot of cues. Real high end stuff is an entirely different topic.

One thing is certain, a refinish cannot be undone.

The poster asked specific questions. He did not ask how it would change the value.

Did these ever have Cortland? Yes.

It's old that's for sure. But it's in ok shape, can these get refinished & have the original wrap saved? Yes.

Should an old 70's Block letter big pin get Refinished? I think so.

If so, Proficient or Joss for that? Proficient.

What's everyone's thoughts? My wife said refinish. I agree.

In addition...

Both these cues seem pretty tuckered out. Before you go dumping good hard-earned money into them, I would be happy to trade you a shiny brand new four point Joss for either one of them as-is. Brand new Joss. I'll even add a brand new second shaft, Joss joint protectors, and a Joss branded case. Think about that new car smell. No waiting for a refinish or shipping it back and forth complications. No having to ask questions on the forum. I'll even do one with some nice inlays in the butt sleeve, fancier than what you have there. Everyone likes inlays, right? You could be that dude with the sexy new fancy Joss cue. The men will envy you, and the girls will swoon.

Heck, I'll even let you have a go with the crazy redhead. But she does carry a switchblade so I would think long and hard before taking that deal.

Just a thought...you did ask for thoughts.

 

[Chopdoc]

Another thought:

Get some nice before and after pictures and put them in the block letter Joss thread in the Cue and Case Gallery.

We work for pictures.

 

[woodyosborne]

my old Joss has Cortland. it has scribed letters, not stamped.

 

[SBC]

Definitely refinish them. They just tape off the wrap, remove the bumper, then weight bolt so the derlin butt cap slides off. Then clean them up and spray them. The veneers will pop again after a light sanding.

The Cortland line wrap can be cleaned up quite a bit with soap and water....its fishing line so as long as you let it dry after....its fine, will actually tighten up a bit. Then you can smooth it out a little with spray starch.

These cues are real old school players. Can make modern shafts for them, to get to 58 inches and a more modern taper with non ivory ferrule.

I had a couple refinished when I was finding and flipping cues.

 

[SBC]

What products might be safe to use to spruce it up, without ruining any of the patina?

Rubbing in a little Antique Oil will help it some....
But I'd vote to refinish with modern finish.

You aren't ruining anything because these are basic players that if perfect original won't fetch over 1000.
Refinished they are worth more than that, certainly enough to cover refinishing costs so long as everything is reasonably straight.

 

[SBC]

I disagree with the "patina" argument. Unless it is really a desirable rare cue, (Gus, Bushka, etc), I would recommend refinishing the cue.

I have heard guys stay the same thing about Meucci cues......guys they arent rare.

Just so you know, the Bushka cue I got was rougher than 2 nights in jail. It was refinished by Pete. Did it kill the value? I doubt it. It isnt super rare (titlist cue). If it was in really good original condition, of course I wouldnt have Pete refinish it. But it was so rough there wasnt huge value as it was.

I dont think that Joss is worth more that the Bushka, and I have sold 100's of cues, and generally refinishing HELPS and doesnt hurt value. The ones that are giving advice ..... well let's just say I dont agree with it.

Ken

Exactly
I refinished about 25 finds with Dan Dishaw....everytime it increased value and I felt I "saved" every one of them.

 

[Matt_24]

You're right. But so are others.

Maybe you didn't read @WildWing post #2. He nailed it. It definitely can be done. It's simply up to the owner. Best not to send to Joss because they might (will?) replace the butt cap and wrap. Proficient is the best and/or most popular choice.

Generally, with cues, a refinish does boost the value as you say. But often not much beyond the cost of the work, if at all, on a lot of cues. Real high end stuff is an entirely different topic.

One thing is certain, a refinish cannot be undone.

The poster asked specific questions. He did not ask how it would change the value.

Did these ever have Cortland? Yes.

It's old that's for sure. But it's in ok shape, can these get refinished & have the original wrap saved? Yes.

Should an old 70's Block letter big pin get Refinished? I think so.

If so, Proficient or Joss for that? Proficient.

What's everyone's thoughts? My wife said refinish. I agree.

In addition...

Both these cues seem pretty tuckered out. Before you go dumping good hard-earned money into them, I would be happy to trade you a shiny brand new four point Joss for either one of them as-is. Brand new Joss. I'll even add a brand new second shaft, Joss joint protectors, and a Joss branded case. Think about that new car smell. No waiting for a refinish or shipping it back and forth complications. No having to ask questions on the forum. I'll even do one with some nice inlays in the butt sleeve, fancier than what you have there. Everyone likes inlays, right? You could be that dude with the sexy new fancy Joss cue. The men will envy you, and the girls will swoon.

Heck, I'll even let you have a go with the crazy redhead. But she does carry a switchblade so I would think long and hard before taking that deal.

Just a thought...you did ask for thoughts.

Love this. I thought Dean has resurrected by your sales pitch.