10 best players in the world
- Thread starter jbart65
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probably. he's the current buffalos one pocket champion, he has won the american 14.1 championship (in which he ran the set out in several matches), won DCC banks, etc. but fedor should be clear favorite in banks.
in the last four years, out of 15 available DCC banners they've won 11 between them.
Thanks for your input. It's possible Fedor is still a hair above Josh as an all-around player.
In fact, in a chat I had with Fedor at Derby City one time, I told him that I felt that if he passed Efren's Master of the Table count, he'd have a reasonable claim to being the best all-around player ever. Some would suggest Lassiter, who had an incredible record at Johnston City and won tournaments across all the disciplines, is also in the conversation, and perhaps they have a point. Sigel and Varner, of course, are always in the discussion. To pass Efren, Fedor needs three more Derby City Master of the Table awards, and he might well get them, but they won't come easy.
Even as an all-around player, Josh has shown a little more range than Fedor. Although Josh has major titles in both disciplines, I would agree with you that Josh is still a slight underdog to Fedor at both banks and 1-pocket, but Josh has also won the American 14.1, the European 14.1 and also the World 8ball Championship. I think you have to go back to Nick Varner to find the last pool pro with such a wide range of titles across the disciplines.
In the final result, however you size up Josh vs Fedor, the one thing that is clear is that they are generational talents, among the best that ever picked up a pool cue. I consider myself very fortunate to get to see them play so often. Still, I saw prime Efren Reyes and prime Mike Sigel up close and cannot put either Josh or Fedor above them. Of course, that could well change at some point.
PS As is so often pointed out here on AZB, if one speaks of all cuesports, Harold Worst, a great all-around pool player and a World 3-cushion champion. might belong at the top of the all-around discussion, but that's a debate for another day.
8intheside
Well-known member
I always appreciate your knowledge and input! Unless I’m wrong the only titles Filler has that Gorst doesn’t is the world 8-ball and one more major 14.1 championship. I’m not sure how often Fedor competes at 14.1, but I’d be willing to bet that the world 8-ball will come at some point. It’s good to hear some acknowledgment of Nick Varner!, he’s without a doubt in the conversation of best all-around player ever. Another player I’d mention is SVB, in my mind he’s right on Efren’s heels as the GOAT!
If you mean outside of rotation pool, you are, I believe, correct, provided you mean at singles only.
If rotation games are included, however, the Qatar Open 10ball, European Open 9ball, UK Open 9ball, China Open 9ball, Las Vegas Open 10ball, and Jacksonville 10ball, are a few more examples of major titles that Josh has won that Fedor hasn't. That said, we'll give Fedor time for, as special a player as he is, he will likely capture some of these at some point.
Honestly, I don't feel that the Filler/Gorst rivalry can be compared to the Sigel/Varner rivalry quite yet. For that to be the case, many more chapters must be written. I just feel that the Filler/Gorst rivalry is the best since the 1980s when the Sigel/Varner rivalry was on full tilt.
891014+1
Active member
There is no other ranking system that shows the reality of rotation pool than Fargo ratings. And jf it included 8, 9, and 10 ball, would even be more accurate.
WPA and WNT points are from their respective events, so, nothing wrong with them both, just not getting the full picture of players ranking skill.
WPA and WNT points are from their respective events, so, nothing wrong with them both, just not getting the full picture of players ranking skill.
Of course, SVB is an all-time great with a top ten resume of all that ever played. Still, Shane, Varner and Lassiter cannot stand up to Sigel for the title of greatest ever American player. Mike was a top five of all time straight pooler and a top five of all time rotation games player. He was also very accomplished at both one pocket and banks. Both Earl and Efren said of him: "Mike Sigel is the best player I have ever played against."
Efren, however, is in a category by himself. He is the best ever one pocket player, he is in the conversation for the best 8-ball player ever, he won the most celebrated 9ball event of the period over the seemingly unbeatable Earl Strickland in an unprecedented race to 120. To be fair, though, I think Efren is considered the greatest for the way he broadened the theory of the game, introducing ideas and shots never seen before. The legendary player of the 1960s Jonny Ervolino once, admiringly, said two things of Efren a) when Efren looks over a pool table, he sees things that no player that came before him ever saw, and b) Efren does things with inside english that I didn't know were even possible.
Efren changed the way we think about and play pool, and that's why so many, myself included, put him on the pedestal. It won't be easy to knock him off, but Josh and Fedor are putting together careers that make one think it could happen. Josh is winning major titles at the highest rate since Mike Sigel, but has many battles left to be fought, so we will stay tuned.
we can guess closely but no real way to compare players that are so close in skill as even day to day events changes how they perform.
only playing in headsup long matches spaced weeks apart, can you get a more realistic view of who is really beter than the other.
plus most are not being judged against another solely both being in their best prime. which few except for a couple now can be .
my real test is when to each put up their own money and play a long race for it on neutral conditions.
that brings out the best and worst in them.
only playing in headsup long matches spaced weeks apart, can you get a more realistic view of who is really beter than the other.
plus most are not being judged against another solely both being in their best prime. which few except for a couple now can be .
my real test is when to each put up their own money and play a long race for it on neutral conditions.
that brings out the best and worst in them.
Not my real test. Stamina has nothing to do with pool greatness. If two players play a $100,000 race to 13 once a day, day after day, you'll find out who is the better player within a couple of weeks, not which player can play on and on and on and on.
Of course, these days nobody bets their own. It is largely myth that the top guys usually bet their own in the 1980s, too. For a big stake, give a player a choice between betting their own or risking nothing but getting 30% of the profits if they win and they'll rarely choose the first option. It is true today, and it was always true.
The myths grow larger with time. I recall the night of Jack Cooney's induction into the one pocket hall of fame several years ago. One speaker commented that he admired Jack for betting his own. The next speaker spoke of how often he was Jack's stake-horse.
Of course, there's no better test of pedigree than putting all the great players in the same place at the same time and see who's the last man standing. To win at the majors, there's no getting comfortable with any opponent. You have to beat a multitude of tough opponents, each having a different style and each having different strengths and weaknesses, and you might play each of them on a different table. That's a much tougher assignment than gradually wearing down a single opponent.
If we go by action results, Jack Cooney is probably the best player of all time, but it's not about money won, it's about regularly dismissing the most elite players in the biggest spots. If it were about the money, the tycoon with a Fargo of 520 who won 10,000,000 gambling with another tycoon having a Fargo of 520 would dominate the pages of AZB for having won more than four times the money that Efren made in his entire career.
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If they ever stage such an event, count me in!