Before I pull the trigger... am I making a mistake?

W

WSBC

New member
I'm in the final stages of opening a pool room and now I'm starting to second guess myself.

The area I live in is very unique. People in his area identify themselves primarily by what side of the river they live on. Most people only cross the river if they have no choice. There are 2 pool rooms on the other side of the river and none on my side. This county has the highest growth rate in our state and is mostly all Mid-high income residents.

Population: 277,000
Median Age: 40
Diversity: White 83.5/Asian 7.6/African American 5.9%
Median Income: $87,500 Macro to the township and neighbor median: $115,000

The closest competitor on the other side of the river opened 3 years ago with 15 tables. The place is a converted auto shop, roughly put together, and a bare bones kitchen. They started out with no liquor license. Last year they bought one and now server drinks. As of late '25 they bought a former restaurant near their current location. They plan to expand to 20 tables when the move.

Bars in my area do not put tables in their rooms. There are only 2 bars with tables. One allows smoking and the other hosts leagues limiting casual player access.

I've reached out to the local APA operator and he's excited about the idea and will be pushing to get teams setup in my location as soon as it opens. I haven't yet reached out to the other leagues in the area yet until I know the financing and a location are in place.

Why am I second guessing? I won't have a liquor license, and I don't want to put over $100k into renovations of a space and have to move in 2 years so I'm looking at a larger space 12,000 sq ft, and my kitchen will be limited at first due to costs. My budget includes 10 7' Rasson tables and 4 tables for Black ball, and 2 soft tip and 2 steel tip dart boards.

Current startup costs: $260k

My plan is to have a family friendly atmosphere with a focus on attracting new youth players. Pushing the message to parents that this is NOT a bar... we will allow BYOB alcohol in the evenings. I have a certified instructor who wants to run a youth academy program out of the place. On top of that I plan to host an in house youth league and have commitments from 2 national youth tours to host events at the location. There is a very large senior living community 5 mins away so there is the possibility of a daytime player base.

I'm not settled on how to charge for tables... per player per hour or flat rate. my business partners say per table per hour and they are the ones that have been involved with pool halls in the past... I just don't know if the revenue will be there.

I have an opportunity to apply for a grant for around $85,000 which I will use to fill out the rest of the room with an additional 10-13 tables. Through my business partner we are getting wholesale pricing on all the tables and pro shop supplies and will be the local Rasson dealer so that will be nice. So there is the possibility that we will open with 20 7' 3 9' and 4 Black ball tables.

I'm also concerned about the kitchen. I just got a quote for the vent hood for $43,000... that is NOT in my budget. Without it though I won't be able to have fryers, oven, or a flat top. I plan to focus my menu on smoked meats which will be done outside so that isn't a problem but damn... the standard stuff is just so expensive to setup.

Am I making a mistake here?

Thanks,

WSBC
 
Are those demo #'s for your "side of the river"? Also, given your intended demo, I'd like more info on numbers for your targeted demos and other businesses that might attract the same demographic.

Am I right that you're not in the U.S., hence the black ball? If not, if I'm highly dependent on league play, I'm going to think long and hard about anything that reduces the volume/size of the leagues that I can accommodate. Along those lines,I'd like to see demos on the available leagues in the area. How are they doing? Do you have the population to support their growth? Do their players tend to match your targeted demographic?

Really too little info for me to evaluate it from a business perspective. Initial capital expenses are important, but without being able to project monthly operating expenses and revenues you can't even begin to know if you can even make the nut every month...

I will say that without much (bar, food) to drive traffic other than the tables themselves you're going to be very limited in your revenue stream...
 
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David in FL said:
Are those demo #'s for your "side of the river"? Also, given your intended demo, I'd like more info on numbers for your targeted demos and other businesses that might attract the same demographic.

Am I right that you're not in the U.S., hence the black ball?

Really too little info for me to evaluate it from a business perspective. Initial capital expenses are important, but without being able to project monthly operating expenses and revenues you can't even begin to know if you can even make the nut every month...

I will say that without much (bar, food) to drive traffic other than the tables themselves you're going to be very limited in your revenue stream...
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No, this is in the states. They are trying to get Black Ball to catch on over here. McDermot has already pledged sponsorship dollars for us to host a Black Ball tournament.

I have a 13 page business plan and worked with the local SBA to develop a 3 year financial projection. On paper the business cash flows after 6 months. If you'd like more specifics you can message me and I'll share them privately.

Yes our county stops at the river. So these demo numbers are all relevant to the people that don't like to cross the river.

There are 2 bowling alleys locally within a 10 mile radius. One is alcohol free and the other has a bar. Both serve standard concession foods. Both have been in business for 40-50 years. There is a local arcade but no one talks about it or goes there that I know of. I think they have 2-3 valley 7' tables. The rest of the tables in the area are in either VFW halls or other private clubs. None of which allow anyone under the age of 18 to play.
 
WSBC said:
No, this is in the states. They are trying to get Black Ball to catch on over here. McDermot has already pledged sponsorship dollars for us to host a Black Ball tournament.

I have a 13 page business plan and worked with the local SBA to develop a 3 year financial projection. On paper the business cash flows after 6 months. If you'd like more specifics you can message me and I'll share them privately.

Yes our county stops at the river. So these demo numbers are all relevant to the people that don't like to cross the river.

There are 2 bowling alleys locally within a 10 mile radius. One is alcohol free and the other has a bar. Both serve standard concession foods. Both have been in business for 40-50 years. There is a local arcade but no one talks about it or goes there that I know of. I think they have 2-3 valley 7' tables. The rest of the tables in the area are in either VFW halls or other private clubs. None of which allow anyone under the age of 18 to play.
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I edited my post while you were typing yours to add that if I'm highly dependent on league play, I'm going to think long and hard about anything that reduces the volume/size of the leagues that I can accommodate, e.g. black ball...

Along those lines,I'd like to see demos on the available leagues in the area. How are they doing? Do you have the population to support their growth? Do their players tend to match your targeted demographic?

It's also worth noting that I don't believe that APA, the most prevalent league in the country, doesn't even allow junior players.

I'm not trying to dissuade you in any way, just kind of thinking out loud here...
 
I didn't take it as you were trying to dissuade me at all. I welcome all constructive and well thought out opinions.

At 12,000 sq ft. I have plenty of space to add the black ball tables without impacting my ability to have 20+ normal tables. I'm going to work with an architect out of Kansas that has experience designing multiple large pool rooms to lay out the hall to maximize my monetization of the space while accounting for appropriate team based seating around the tables for league play.

The Junior league will be an in house BCA league.

The APA operator gave me the contact information for the local BCA and TAP operators in the area and USAPool is starting up in this area as well. Everyone I've run into in the APA leagues in my area are all mid to late 30s-60s in age. Also all the type of customers I'd expect to see in the hall.

I anticipate leveraging the Billiard Education Foundation to work with the schools to develop billiards clubs in the schools. Also one of my partners is retired High School teacher and will assist with communications to the schools / boards to facilitate conversations.
 
WSBC said:
I didn't take it as you were trying to dissuade me at all. I welcome all constructive and well thought out opinions.

At 12,000 sq ft. I have plenty of space to add the black ball tables without impacting my ability to have 20+ normal tables. I'm going to work with an architect out of Kansas that has experience designing multiple large pool rooms to lay out the hall to maximize my monetization of the space while accounting for appropriate team based seating around the tables for league play.

The Junior league will be an in house BCA league.

The APA operator gave me the contact information for the local BCA and TAP operators in the area and USAPool is starting up in this area as well. Everyone I've run into in the APA leagues in my area are all mid to late 30s-60s in age. Also all the type of customers I'd expect to see in the hall.

I anticipate leveraging the Billiard Education Foundation to work with the schools to develop billiards clubs in the schools. Also one of my partners is retired High School teacher and will assist with communications to the schools / boards to facilitate conversations.
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I always thought that a high school pool league would be a novel idea....like any other sport like football or basketball. Maybe 8 or 10 local schools in a league, playing each other in a round-robin schedule.
 
I cannot Tell you what to do!! But if you are second doubt yourself. Then Stop and reevaluation. The only knowledge I have is from my Mentor Tony Long of Newport News,VA Long's Billiard Room, Long's Billiards Supply, and Owner/Inventory of TipPik's Tool... And Barry Behrman (past) of Qmaster Billiard
 
WSBC said:
I'm in the final stages of opening a pool room and now I'm starting to second guess myself.

The area I live in is very unique. People in his area identify themselves primarily by what side of the river they live on. Most people only cross the river if they have no choice. There are 2 pool rooms on the other side of the river and none on my side. This county has the highest growth rate in our state and is mostly all Mid-high income residents.

Population: 277,000
Median Age: 40
Diversity: White 83.5/Asian 7.6/African American 5.9%
Median Income: $87,500 Macro to the township and neighbor median: $115,000

The closest competitor on the other side of the river opened 3 years ago with 15 tables. The place is a converted auto shop, roughly put together, and a bare bones kitchen. They started out with no liquor license. Last year they bought one and now server drinks. As of late '25 they bought a former restaurant near their current location. They plan to expand to 20 tables when the move.

Bars in my area do not put tables in their rooms. There are only 2 bars with tables. One allows smoking and the other hosts leagues limiting casual player access.

I've reached out to the local APA operator and he's excited about the idea and will be pushing to get teams setup in my location as soon as it opens. I haven't yet reached out to the other leagues in the area yet until I know the financing and a location are in place.

Why am I second guessing? I won't have a liquor license, and I don't want to put over $100k into renovations of a space and have to move in 2 years so I'm looking at a larger space 12,000 sq ft, and my kitchen will be limited at first due to costs. My budget includes 10 7' Rasson tables and 4 tables for Black ball, and 2 soft tip and 2 steel tip dart boards.

Current startup costs: $260k

My plan is to have a family friendly atmosphere with a focus on attracting new youth players. Pushing the message to parents that this is NOT a bar... we will allow BYOB alcohol in the evenings. I have a certified instructor who wants to run a youth academy program out of the place. On top of that I plan to host an in house youth league and have commitments from 2 national youth tours to host events at the location. There is a very large senior living community 5 mins away so there is the possibility of a daytime player base.

I'm not settled on how to charge for tables... per player per hour or flat rate. my business partners say per table per hour and they are the ones that have been involved with pool halls in the past... I just don't know if the revenue will be there.

I have an opportunity to apply for a grant for around $85,000 which I will use to fill out the rest of the room with an additional 10-13 tables. Through my business partner we are getting wholesale pricing on all the tables and pro shop supplies and will be the local Rasson dealer so that will be nice. So there is the possibility that we will open with 20 7' 3 9' and 4 Black ball tables.

I'm also concerned about the kitchen. I just got a quote for the vent hood for $43,000... that is NOT in my budget. Without it though I won't be able to have fryers, oven, or a flat top. I plan to focus my menu on smoked meats which will be done outside so that isn't a problem but damn... the standard stuff is just so expensive to setup.

Am I making a mistake here?

Thanks,

WSBC
Click to expand...
Much safer to go with Diamonds rather than Rasson tables, for many reasons including resale value. Sorry, but I don’t know what black ball is?

If you are going for family friendly with no alcohol, you’d better plan on having a strong food operation with a hood, as that will account for the majority of your $ sales. I mean it must be good enough to draw in numerous regulars to eat there multiple times a week who may never play pool there. To do that, you need to have a really good experienced full-time cook/chef that offers daily specials every day.

We’ve made our poolroom work for 30 years with that concept, but it’s not easy. The labor situation these days which you’ll need with a grill operation (servers and cooks) is a constant challenge, and comes at a considerable cost, as these days even young employees expect to make at least $15-$20 / hour. You’d better love the lifestyle, because there are certainly better investments out there.
 
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I would hold off any major purchases until after the November elections. If Congress flips, the next 2 years are going to be very uncertain. Very.
 
Perhaps a peek at Bergen billiards in NJ might give you some insight into success without kitchen or alcohol service?

I do know that patrons are permitted to BYOB there.
 
I'm not a room owner, but my local hall sort of took the opposite approach and its working for them.

They don't have hot food. Just bottled drinks from a refrigerator and a vending machine with candy. It's BYOB and outside food is allowed. I talked with the owner why he doesn't have a small kitchen, as he packs the place with customers and they bring in their own pizza and cheesesteaks. He looked at the cost of all the kitchen gear, PLUS, needing extra employees to run it, and said he didn't want to deal with all that headache and the extra profit from the food didn't seem worth it.
 
I'd rather be a Player than an Owner


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iusedtoberich said:
I'm not a room owner, but my local hall sort of took the opposite approach and its working for them.

They don't have hot food. Just bottled drinks from a refrigerator and a vending machine with candy. It's BYOB and outside food is allowed. I talked with the owner why he doesn't have a small kitchen, as he packs the place with customers and they bring in their own pizza and cheesesteaks. He looked at the cost of all the kitchen gear, PLUS, needing extra employees to run it, and said he didn't want to deal with all that headache and the extra profit from the food didn't seem worth it.
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good option, especially if there are a couple decent food joints nearby.
 
No liquor and you want kids.... tough in many areas to get schools involved. Liquor pays the bills in most cases. You mentioned the other area room eventually getting liquor and increasing their size, a two step in their manner might be advice. Kids will never pay the bills, and your likely to only see them on weekend nights in most cases, especially if you hire a young high school gal to bring in her demographic. I've heard than only 20% of business's such as this survive, and you won't know till a couple yrs have passed. Make sure your able to get outta your lease, and that local ordinances don't require extra this or that before your open. I had to completely redo my bathrooms to code unexpectedly in one of my situations.
 
guy on our pool team from Albuquerque had a family friendly pool room, no booze, youth leagues, etc. still in business as far as I know, but he ran it as a benefit to the community, not as a source of income, he had other business interests. so long as it broke even he was happy.
 
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