Mosconi Cup standings after the US Open
- Thread starter insidesp.in
- Start date
Gorst, SVB, Tyler, Bergman, and .... Skyler.
It doesn't matter if they earned it or not, Matchroom needs the most competitive U.S. team to try an keep this train on the rails.
The team listed above, if given a month or two to get dialed in....ahem...Skyler...ahem.... would actually have a fighting chance. We still haven't seen a comfortable Gorst in MC play. If he plays well, the pressure would minimize for everyone else. Gorst is the key. If he plays like the number one player in the world, the U.S. could actually win. Still underdogs, but maybe +150 or so.
It doesn't matter if they earned it or not, Matchroom needs the most competitive U.S. team to try an keep this train on the rails.
The team listed above, if given a month or two to get dialed in....ahem...Skyler...ahem.... would actually have a fighting chance. We still haven't seen a comfortable Gorst in MC play. If he plays well, the pressure would minimize for everyone else. Gorst is the key. If he plays like the number one player in the world, the U.S. could actually win. Still underdogs, but maybe +150 or so.
uk_9_ball_convert
Well-known member
I feel like the U.S always puts up Gorst and SVB up early against Europe's best players where it's 50/50 who wins and if they lose it starts to look terrible for America.
Most pool captains seem to have the convention to put out their best players first. When I played in a team if we knew our opponents were better we'd always put out our weaker players first, it's basically a free hit, let the opposition waste their best players playing guys that weren't likely to win anyhow. Then have our best players playing players they could actually beat. If your poor players cause an upset you can win, and even if they don't you have a good chance of getting a draw. Best way to play it when your outgunned IMHO and I'm always amazed the U.S never takes that approach at the Mosconi. Wonder if Johan will see the strategy differently.
Valid point. The knock on Woodward, deserved though it is, doesn't really matter if Gorst got the third automatic bid.
The big question would arise if Hohmann got the third spot and decided to play on Team USA.
Gorst would almost certainly be one of the wild cards. Then Johan would have to pick between the more talented player in Woodward vs. the more savvy and motivated one in Bergman.
For what it's worth, Bergman is even motivated enough to go to the Philippines Open. At least that's how I heard Frost and Frazer describe it. He is playing in Vietnam (WPA World 10-ball Championship) and the Philippines this year, it looks like.
It's mostly a joke.
The point is that unless Team USA gets over the finish line at some point, the Mosconi Cup will lose its shine as an event and could even disappear. I'm sure all the players realize that this annual drubbing threatens the long-term prospects for this event. Hence, by taking a dive, I meant letting the Americans win.
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My best guess is that Johan won't see it differently.
When the opposition consists of five players that are all formidable, it makes no difference.
Looking back, 2025 Team Europe consisted of:
Filler, the best 9ball player in the world
Shaw, the best player at the Mosconi Cup of this generation of players
Labutis, who had won the Hanoi Open weeks before the Mosconi and was in great form
Neuhausen, who came in on fire with second in Hanoi and first at the Peri
Alcaide, who always plays well at the Mosconi and who had won the Philippines Open weeks before the Cup
All of them were in great form, so the team did not have even one weak link. I don't think changes in the matchups would have made even the slightest bit of difference.
I like the strategy, but Europe has no weak players.
uk_9_ball_convert
Well-known member
I get your argument, but Neuhausen was a debutant who really should have been beaten by Styer if Styer's bottle hadn't crashed, presuming the rest of the match goes the same way there is no way Gorst or SVB wouldn't have let him off the hook.
Opening day had doubles matches between FSR & Alcaide v SVB and Gorst and 2 debutants Neuhausen and Labutis v Thorpe and Styler. U.S lost both matches, swap the ties about and I think there is more chance SVB and Gorst beat the 2 debutants. Much was made of team Europe having 2 debutants being a disadvantage and the U.S kind of let them ease into it instead of putting pressure on them with their team selections. Can't remember for certain, but think that match might have been the start of Tyler Styer missing shots he shouldn't have after playing well to get in a potentially winning situation.
Not saying my approach guarantees a U.S win, but I think it increases the odds for it slightly.
Admittedly you could say putting Sky out in the first singles against Shaw was following my strategy of weaker players out first and the 2nd singles match Filler beats Gorst which does back up your argument about strength and depth. Can't remember now if both captains made the choice to play the first singles or was that mandated?
uk_9_ball_convert
Well-known member
even when the team scoreline is quite lopsided I still think the individual matches have often been close and quite exciting. But there is definitely a negative air about the Mosconi because it's been so one sided in recent years. I definitely understand your fear, and I think it's a great event. Would be a shame if it did go into decline. I'll always naturally root for Europe, but I really do hope it's a close scoreline for everyones sake. Don't think even most Europeans want to see another European win by a big margin.
Your dreaming.
realtor1618
Registered
My not so expert odds would look something like this.
Europe -400
USA +325
Europe -3.5
i'm team europe but seeing jayson dance around every year after a trouncing has become a bit long in the tooth.
i think there are small moments that change a whole lot, like shane missing the 9-ball in the opening team match two years ago, and obviously tyler last year.
In my Mosconi Cup writeup, I wrote this:
Fargo fails to account for who is in form. For example, Moritz Neuhausen is playing as well as anyone in the world not named Yapp. In the last three months alone, he medaled at three elite events, winning the Peri Open, getting silver at the Hanoi Open, and getting bronze at the Qatar 10ball. He came in on fire and, unless his Fargo was taken at face value, nobody should have been too surprised that he was Mosconi MVP.
The debutante argument is not applicable here. Neuhausen came in playing as well as any of the ten players at the Mosconi. He had also just played in the Reyes Cup, so he had experience playing with crowd noise. Europe had no weak links, just five players in some serious form.
I have often suggested that over 90% of the job of the coach is done before the players arrive at the Mosconi. Winning is about proper preparation and developing a competitive pedigree, and unless the team members show up with enough of these, nothing a coach does at the Mosconi will compensate for it.
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Sad as f...Here is the full USA ranking - Bergman is in 6th:
This is how the current and future of American Pool looking like?
Imagine if Fedor still wasn't on USA side, we are probably talking about the chance that Corey Duel or Earl or Johnny Archer can make the team
What can we do?
uk_9_ball_convert
Well-known member
Feel bad posting this as I did feel for Tyler at the time and I'm sure he'd prefer everyone forgot this moment, but Mouritz absolutely was there for the taking in his only singles match. Deciding frame 3 balls in the open, Tyler leaves himself a bit straight in the 8, which results in a bit of a cut back on the 9 which he missed. I appreciate everything is harder under pressure, but I don't see Gorst or SVB not clearing up for the win if they had that opportunity
If U.S do win would be nice if Tyler had a redemption arc. If he is playing again I wonder what state of mind he'll go out in as he must have a lot of mental scar tissue. Would Johan be the type to tell him to speak to a sports pyschologist? I think it would be really beneficial for him.
The answer is that in the short-term, we can't do much. Leading up to the US Open 9ball, SVB and Styer were the only guys who were having a good year in 9ball competition. Even after the US Open 9ball, just four players have Matchroom earnings this year that are less than very disheartening.Sad as f...
This is how the current and future of American Pool looking like?
Imagine if Fedor still wasn't on USA side, we are probably talking about the chance that Corey Duel or Earl or Johnny Archer can make the team
What can we do?
Long-term, the answer is that we must do a better job in player development in America. We have not been developing many players with complete skill sets for years now. Is it bad coaching or bad motivation? That's a tough question, but it is probably both. American fundamentals have fallen behind both Europe and Asia and American decision-making has, similarly, fallen behind both Europe and Asia. We can own it and do something about it or live in denial. Based on Mosconi Cup threads in years past, Americans seem more inclined to live in denial.
Yes, everyone can beat everyone, and there were missed opportunities at the 2025 Mosconi Cup, including the one of which you have taken note, but this happens every year. Americans are failing to close out some of the matches that are there for the taking. Also, Gorst and SVB have often gone wrong at the Mosconi in key spots, too, just like their teammates.
uk_9_ball_convert
Well-known member
I think the complete skill sets is a key part of it. Feel often in the early stages of the Mosconi the differentiator has been Europe being better in safety battles. I know there have been some big American misses at key points, but those are normally after they are already behind and under extra pressure because of it.
Interesting.
The truth is that Tyler has tended to play his best pool when Johan is watching. Johan's training of Tyler in 2018 figured prominently in his win at the 2018 Kremlin Cup, and his good play continued at the 2018 Mosconi Cup, in which Team USA broke its losing streak. At this year's UK Open, I sat next to Johan for some of the match as we watched Tyler easily beat Neuhausen, who had just won the European Open.
I hope, and believe, that Tyler will fight the good fight this year at the Mosconi, but we shall see.
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