Thoughts on players who seemingly take Zero practice strokes, before shooting / final follow through?
- Thread starter vintagecollectibles831
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Lotta 14.1 ers used short bridges. It used to be recommended even.
Nope. it's kind of funny. I've told this story many times, because I didn't believe it was possible. Growing up I was always a feel player, you feel where you need to aim and with experience, you make the shot or you don't.
This is sometime in 1999. I was at a place in Riverside Ca called shooters. At the time the GM there was like Efren's best friend, a guy by the name of Alex. He ended up opening his own room in Rancho Cucamonga called Stixx. So Efren came in often, whenever he was in the states. So I'm practicing and in walks Efren and starts practicing on the table next to me.
He was shooting this shot that was insane to me at the time. The 8 and the cb are at one end of the table dead straight about a 1/16" off the rail. The nine is on the rail on the other end of the table. He proceeds to shoot the 8 with top right and shoots it dead into the pocket on a table with 4.25" pockets, and sends the cueball down table with perfect shape on the 9. He does this like ten times in a row.
So I ask, how in the hell are you putting that much $h1t on the ball and still being accurate?
Alex translates, well answers for him really, saying, just aim normal, like center ball and rotate over for the amount of english you want.
I thought about this and said, to myself, not to Efren lol, there's no way, he's gotta be compensating subconsciously.
Now fast forward three years. I'm in the Navy, I'm playing all the time (because I was intelligence and when we were in port we didn't really do anything) and a really good player out of San Diego was talking while I was practicing, and I over hear him. His name was Chip Klein. He starts talking to someone and I see him describing what Efren described.
Long story short, even though it was EFREN REYES saying it, I didn't listen, or even try to use BHE for 3 years.
I've used it ever since...and learned a lot more about it, like the fact that you need to bridge at the cue's pivot point. But remember, everyone taught back then that you should bridge at 8-10 inches and that is the natural pivot point for standard hard rock maple, so for most people even without knowing about the pivot point, BHE would work.
Now, it works for the vast majority of shots, obviously if you hit too soft, then swerve is a bigger factor, etc, etc. But there's no reason to guess or compensate manually for side spin.
You need to try and minimize swerve, so you should elevate and lower your bridge for follow and draw, but for the majority of shots, it works without any other compensation.
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qolbrand
Well-known member
Remember that whenever you're hitting off center, there's spin on the ball, that spin will typically cancel out any CIT.
I remember I was playing with Joey A at dang, my mind is blanking, it's the main place near New Orleans to play. Buffalo billiards, that's it and I started explaining BHE to Joey. I found his cues pivot point for him and he had said, the shot I always have trouble with is using inside english on a ball sitting on the long rail. I said, set it up and I made the shot 3 times in a row, and I told him to try it and he cinched it first try using BHE for the first time ever. I'll never forget the look on his face.
I play mainly on tables with 4.5 inch pockets and only use parallel English.
I find it easier and more reliable to just alter my aim (when necessary) than messing with FHE/BHE.
it doesn't matter as long as you can be consistent. and know where things are going.
to each his own on this. as you can see in all major sports every player does his own thing with swings, follow through arcs, etc.
most don't do a thoughtful line up just get into the position naturally which is most comfortable for them.
trying to emulate another's movements just makes you less likely to improve.
to each his own on this. as you can see in all major sports every player does his own thing with swings, follow through arcs, etc.
most don't do a thoughtful line up just get into the position naturally which is most comfortable for them.
trying to emulate another's movements just makes you less likely to improve.
middleofnowhere
Registered
When I said a little bit longer bridge I'm not referring to Long. Just longer than like a four or six inch bridge. You play with a bridge that short to make an adjustment you almost have to un-plant your bridge hand. I'm just saying you don't want to be extreme in either way.
On my reply to you I was referring to an average bridge length of somewhere between 8-12". You didn't specify any lengths (very few players bridge in the 4=6" range) so I had to go with that. The 18" thing was a reply to Jaden, not you. Just attempting to kill two birds with one stone, er post.
Even still, I'm wondering what you think a micro adjustment actually is. I wouldn't have any trouble making one with a 6" bridge.
Pat's the first one that came to mind to me, too. He would settle down on the shot and then shoot. He didn't really take practice strokes.
He also didn't miss very often.
I have never seen any pool player consistently perform at their best without ever taking any practice strokes nor when someone takes an inconsistent number of practice strokes, sometimes bordering on excessive. The best athletes and pool players usually use a pre-shot routine, they generally adhere to it once they get settled and ready to perform.
You see in it pro tennis players about to serve, pro golfers on the tee box, pro baseball players in the batters box, archers about to shoot with their breathing. Gosh, there are so many examples that you can come up with. Why do you think that is?
Embracing the fundamentals and then incorporating it with your own personalized implementation can be incredibly helpful. Now the less personalizing you do, IMO, the better off you are. In other words, don’t emulate Keith McCready’s pool grip when you play pool even though it worked great for him. Just work on a pre-shot routine.
The best pool players I’ve been privileged to see in person & televised had a consistent approach before they play the shot.
When they get into shooting stance, everything is rehearsed and performed the same way. They have a blank mind, just see the sight picture before them, take the same number of practice strokes and play the shot or else they get out of their shooting stance, the best players don’t remain bent over and suddenly start thinking about what doesn’t seem right and the play the shot. When you start thinking about anything other the stroking the cue ball to a exact spot, you’re introducing variables and that usually affects the outcome. You miss the shot but come really close so you don’t learn what to do differently next time. Pool is played between your eyes before your pool cue even starts to move.
Establish a pre-shot routine and stick to it. If you can’t or resist, your mental concentration and ability to change is very
poor and you pool skills will plateau and improve very slowly, if at all. If you aren’t comfortable taking the shot, don’t remain in your stance trying to get comfortable. Stand up, step away from the table, reassess the shot, confirm exactly where to strike the object ball and whether the cue will be played stop, follow, draw or English, stand behind the cue ball and get a general sight alignment and position your body, get low to the table and do your pre-shot routine to play it. Now do not get up from your shooting stance and just watch the cue ball movement and after it comes to a rest, then get up. Watch the table not just the shot played and the best way is to follow the cue ball. Why?
Well, unless you are new to the game, we all want to cue ball to land in a destination on the table that follows our plan to run the table. And we don’t always get perfect position despite we intended to so watching the cue ball tells you about the deflection, speed, rotation & accidental collisions that happen trying to get shape and what to do next time.
You see in it pro tennis players about to serve, pro golfers on the tee box, pro baseball players in the batters box, archers about to shoot with their breathing. Gosh, there are so many examples that you can come up with. Why do you think that is?
Embracing the fundamentals and then incorporating it with your own personalized implementation can be incredibly helpful. Now the less personalizing you do, IMO, the better off you are. In other words, don’t emulate Keith McCready’s pool grip when you play pool even though it worked great for him. Just work on a pre-shot routine.
The best pool players I’ve been privileged to see in person & televised had a consistent approach before they play the shot.
When they get into shooting stance, everything is rehearsed and performed the same way. They have a blank mind, just see the sight picture before them, take the same number of practice strokes and play the shot or else they get out of their shooting stance, the best players don’t remain bent over and suddenly start thinking about what doesn’t seem right and the play the shot. When you start thinking about anything other the stroking the cue ball to a exact spot, you’re introducing variables and that usually affects the outcome. You miss the shot but come really close so you don’t learn what to do differently next time. Pool is played between your eyes before your pool cue even starts to move.
Establish a pre-shot routine and stick to it. If you can’t or resist, your mental concentration and ability to change is very
poor and you pool skills will plateau and improve very slowly, if at all. If you aren’t comfortable taking the shot, don’t remain in your stance trying to get comfortable. Stand up, step away from the table, reassess the shot, confirm exactly where to strike the object ball and whether the cue will be played stop, follow, draw or English, stand behind the cue ball and get a general sight alignment and position your body, get low to the table and do your pre-shot routine to play it. Now do not get up from your shooting stance and just watch the cue ball movement and after it comes to a rest, then get up. Watch the table not just the shot played and the best way is to follow the cue ball. Why?
Well, unless you are new to the game, we all want to cue ball to land in a destination on the table that follows our plan to run the table. And we don’t always get perfect position despite we intended to so watching the cue ball tells you about the deflection, speed, rotation & accidental collisions that happen trying to get shape and what to do next time.
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Well, I'm limited on knowledge on many things, but I know as much as I need to know about BHE and pivot points. You have a number of posts on this thread where you've made statements that, how should I put this, are, if not wrong, are unquestionably, incomplete.
I chose to reply to this one because it's probably the most blatant misrepresentation.
To my limited knowledge, with most LD shafts the PP is upwards of 15". Some by quite a lot. Go ahead and make the video but be sure to include let's say, 4 or 5 different types of shots and shoot them all with different speeds and distances using the same length bridge. No cherry picking.
Not often at all, Hope You are well !
Why do you gotta be a dick about it? I promise you I'm right, you can either learn from it or don't no skin off my junk.
So many people have left this site because of people who like to thumb their noses to those who have and are willing to share the knowledge.
People, including myself, have always been incredulus about BHE and the pivot point. I don't know probably 12-14 years ago now when I was streaming some tournaments, I got on and did a live stream and had a caller call in and AFTER I got down on the shot and locked my bridge in, lined up on a straight shot, I had the caller choose what english to put on the ball. I then just pivoted for the type of english HE chose to show him it works.
I'm not willing to do that again, you guys are gonna have to just try it for yourself. It works, for the vast majority of shots. The only ones you really have to adjust for are the super soft shots and sometimes the super hard ones, but you could see that even a long semi hard shot I took on the seven with low outside worked just fine.
I'm not willing to do that again, you guys are gonna have to just try it for yourself. It works, for the vast majority of shots. The only ones you really have to adjust for are the super soft shots and sometimes the super hard ones, but you could see that even a long semi hard shot I took on the seven with low outside worked just fine.
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qolbrand
Well-known member
wild stuff man. sounds like some kind of sorcery to me!
i will mess around with it though, thanks for sharing
On shitty strokes, I noticed Dr Dave uses an articulated full stance pivot to preserve the integrity of his stroke.
I don't. (lol) I just move the back hand. There's plenty of ligaments to compensate for you; keep it linear. Anyway, that clued me as to why I was able to bang so well in the beginner stages. Thanks.
It should also clue you in as to why you'd make shots but have no idea why the cueball didn't do what you expected.
If you watch me play for any extended period, you'd be able to see that I've trained my arm to swing in and out for the back hand movement, that way I'm still using a pendulum swing for the actual stroke, and I use a modified snooker stance to keep my body out of the way of my arm swing.
Zackly.
