Cue Order

We are splitting hairs over the interpretation and intent of words. We disagree about what I meant or let’s say I intended which was never about anything other than his adamant stance and opinions about cue building. Yes, I think his approach is dumb but if it works for him and his customers, that’s all that matters for him and them. I happen to think otherwise but that is not saying he isn’t intelligent, i.e., dumb. A good cue maker builds what his customers want made, not what he wants to build. That’s akin to saying what you want is wrong and I know better than you what you need for your pool cue.

Please…….I may not know as many cue makers as you but I have met, spoken with and done business with enough to
know not one of them ever uttered the bullshit that Al is “ attributed” to having told the OP when he wanted Al to build a cue to his specs that just so happened to conflict with how he believes a cue should be built. That is just hogwash. Let’s close this with whatever response you may be inclined to compose or just let this die it’s own death. You like the guy and I don’t dislike him. However, I do dislike his beliefs about how a cue should be built so I suppose we disagree about his approach.
 
First thing, a heavy cue draws better than a light one. A 26 ounce cue will draw far easier than that 19 ounce cue and easier still than a cue lighter than 19 ounces. Might be that Al knows the person he is building the cue for and suggested a lighter cue. More likely, Al never said what is being attributed to him.

When I first came to AZB twenty plus years ago, I viewed it as a marketplace. I was quiet, polite, helpful. Then I realized I didn't want to market to a fair sized faction on here anyway. Every person that thinks that they hired me, every person that thought they owned me body and soul because they wanted a cue built, well they could all take a long leap at a rolling donut.

Years ago on a quiet afternoon I mentioned in a thread that I might build some cues. In less than two hours I had eight people wanting to get in line to order anything I built. That is some indication of reputation. You don't get that kind of reputation by building anything somebody will pay for.

Most cue builders are flexible about cosmetics. If you want an ugly cue, dude lay your money down and I will build you the ugliest cue you have ever seen! If you want to combine materials that aren't compatible, you don't have enough money for me to build that. If you want something that is going to play like crap, I won't build that either. Every cue that goes out the door has my reputation riding with it. That is true of every other cue builder too.

If I had to pick the most common weight of cues built in the last twenty years it would be 19-19.5 ounces so I suspect that this whole thread is resting on something Al never said. As I have already said, a heavy cue draws easier. Other issues, but a heavy cue draws like a sumbitch!

A custom cue is a collaboration between a client and a cue builder. If both aren't happy with what is being built, it isn't going to happen.

My personal cue weighs 16.5 ounces. It is sixty inches long, and has a balance point 21 inches from the bumper. That is getting close to the extremes I would build for somebody else.

Something I would do that few cue builders or makers do is put together an order sheet that includes the entire specifications of the cue. Verbal agreements are worth the paper they are written on.

Hu
 
Is that even scientifically accurate?
With golf the studies have shown that the speed of the clue head far out weighed the importance over the weight of the head in hitting the ball farther. I suspect it's the same with a pool cue, that if all other things are equal, stroke, tips placement etc, more speed will get you more draw.
So if you can move a lighter cue faster I have to think there's an element of truth to it.

Edit: I don't mean to insinuate that you can't draw a ball with a 19oz cue, that's silly.
 
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First thing, a heavy cue draws better than a light one.

Right? I put on my extension to get more draw.

The analogy with a golf club is wrong. You're not looking for speed. The trick is to impart backspin on the cue ball *without* giving it too much forward speed. Any forward speed has to be overcome by the backspin, so slower is better and more controlled.
 
Right? I put on my extension to get more draw.

The analogy with a golf club is wrong. You're not looking for speed. The trick is to impart backspin on the cue ball *without* giving it too much forward speed. Any forward speed has to be overcome by the backspin, so slower is better and more controlled.
You comments make it sound like you haven’t had high speed video analysis of your golf swing and bio-mechanics.
Underspin is important as any certified instructor will confirm and but so is your swing dynamic launch, ball flight, peak height, ball speed, spin axis, swing speed, club path, angle of attack, swing plane (horizontal and vertical) and a lot more. Speed is critical for distance and today the pro game, which amateurs always want to emulate, epitomizes it.

From the tee to inside 140 yards from the green, you are swinging full. When you are closer and the ability to carry 4 wedges
(PW, GW, SW & LW) to use, your swing speed slows for distance control. However swing speed is what gets you closer to the green from the tee box. Golf is all about swing speed from putter to driver and your need to control it.
 
If you are not delivering the golf club properly - raw speed won't get you anywhere.

On second thought it will get you further into the woods, out of bounds & in the hazard.

How you deliver the club & the ball contact on the face determines just about everything. Of course you need speed to go with, but everything else is just a byproduct of those variables.
 
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If you are not delivering the golf club properly - raw speed won't get you anywhere.

On second thought it will get you further into the woods, out of bounds & in the hazard.

How you deliver the club & the ball contact on the face determines just about everything. Of course you need speed to go with, but everything else is just a byproduct of those variables.
Without a doubt. The point is though is that if your path and contact is good, faster gains you more distance than a heavier club head.
 
However swing speed is what gets you closer to the green from the tee box.

Agreed, and that's why it's different from pool. I don't want the cue ball going fast. If it's going fast, I need more backspin to overcome its forward momentum. If it's going fast, I have less control. If it's going fast, the object ball will be going fast, and it will be harder for the pocket to accept the shot. Fast is your friend when driving a golf ball. Fast is the enemy in pool.
 
Fast is your friend in tennis, hockey, soccer, baseball, cricket, golf, boxing, ping pong, video gaming, heck, even hand slap games. Speed is relative to the shot before you. In golf, you can be 25-30 yards off the green and you have a number of ways to play the shot with your wedges and every iron from the 5 iron down. The longer the iron, i.e., lower loft, the less air time is required and swing speed is slower. Move up to your lob wedge, and you can swing a lot faster and impart more backspin so you can land beyond the flag……..Like Harvey Pennick wrote in The Little Red Book, why bother using backspin unless you land the ball beyond the flag stick. In pool, hitting hard can become a real nemesis and also a bad habit that becomes a challenge to change later on. OBs zoom in the pocket and look exciting but your position shape starts diminishing really fast.
 
I’m Al’s nephew and I find this thread pretty humorous. I’m 58 year old and I’m youngster compared to my uncle but I’m old enough to know anyone that knows Al doesn’t question his integrity. In fact I’ve run into numerous people in pool rooms across the country that go out of their way for me when they find out through conversations that I’m Al’s nephew. I’ve been told many days gone by stories of who Al beat and almost universally they’ll follow their story up with something along the lines of as great of a pool player your uncle was and he was great he is even a better man. I know that there are plenty of “youngsters” out there that are around my age and younger that don’t really know who Al Romero is. I can guarantee you Al doesn't have a cues in the corner of his shop already made that he‘s looking to unload. Cues he makes are already sold. In the pool world you’ll run into your fair share of characters that you might question their character or integrity… Al Romero is not one of them. Al has more pool knowledge about the game and cues in his little finger than most will ever gain in their lifetime. And if you are lucky enough to really know him and he shares his wisdom beyond pool you’ll be the wiser. The conversation that was had with Stew boo I’ve heard numerous times through out the years when visiting Al’s shop since I’ve been 14 years old, but what’s lost in the translation is that Al’s making recommendations many times it’s to someone that’s not at all near a professional level player so take that any way you feel. I read the first post and can clearly see that Stew boo meant nothing derogatory but clearly some people that don’t know Al felt compelled. If I told my uncle about this thread and told him what I posted I know he would laugh and tell me not to waste my time.
I’ve been busy this year and haven’t been here on AZB lately - but today I logged in and notice this thread. I want to clarify what I was saying in my earlier post, because this thread has moved a long way from it.

I wasn’t trying to argue that every recommendation Al made was universally right, or that people have to like his cues. I was pointing out that the phone conversation was being judged without the context Al brought to it: a lifetime around the game not to mention the level that he played the game, including years at Hard Times in Bellflower since it was opened, where he knew the players and had a feel for their abilities.

Al doesn’t need me or anyone on a forum to stand up for him, and I know he would care less about this argument. Unless you are familiar with Marcus Aurelius - Al Romero is stoic to the level that most would never understand - which to me is part of the reason he was such a great player, gambler, gentleman. He - to this very day, would rather have most doubt his abilities and would rather say he broke even when he actually beat all of his well known contemporaries more than he got ever got beat by them… if they played more than a few times. And I welcome Jay Helfert, who most here respect his historical knowledge, to correct me if I’m going off the rails.

His life in pool speaks for itself. People who knew him all around the country respected him because of his character and integrity and feared his game. Growing up I witnessed first hand acclaimed players wanting no part of his action because he already beat them. He’s 90 now and most people here are too young to have seen that firsthand. Some of the certainty in this thread no doubt might sound different if 5hey knew the history. A history that probably will go down just the way that he’d want it… largely unnoticed.

5he revived discussion is now mostly about cue weight, draw, and what a customer should be able to specify. That’s a separate conversation from the point I was making: a few lines retelling one conversation don’t capture the knowledge, experience, or context behind Al’s advice - Al made hundreds of cues to players exact requested specs.

I’ve noticed the comments and reactions from people who actually know Al, knew his shop, or actual pool scene beyond league play. They understand the context I was referring to. I wanted to make sure it wasn’t lost.
 
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Without a doubt. The point is though is that if your path and contact is good, faster gains you more distance than a heavier club head.
Blanket statements like heavier or lighter in golf & pool just don't work. It truly is what works best for the individual and is all personal preference.

In golf the heavier head may be needed for a specific swing-weight or a shorter overall length. Again personal preference for what works best for the individual.
 
In golf, you can be 25-30 yards off the green and you have a number of ways to play the shot with your wedges and every iron from the 5 iron down. The longer the iron, i.e., lower loft, the less air time is required and swing speed is slower. Move up to your lob wedge, and you can swing a lot faster and impart more backspin so you can land beyond the flag.
You don't ever want to be 25-30 yards off the green. You want to be just around the green chipping, not pitching from an awkward distance. That is why the best players in the world lay up to a full club yardage.

Imagine playing pool being on the wrong side of every shot.
 
You don't ever want to be 25-30 yards off the green. You want to be just around the green chipping, not pitching from an awkward distance. That is why the best players in the world lay up to a full club yardage.

Imagine playing pool being on the wrong side of every shot.
Don't have to imagine!

Damn balls.
 
With golf the studies have shown that the speed of the clue head far out weighed the importance over the weight of the head in hitting the ball farther. I suspect it's the same with a pool cue, that if all other things are equal, stroke, tips placement etc, more speed will get you more draw.
So if you can move a lighter cue faster I have to think there's an element of truth to it.

Edit: I don't mean to insinuate that you can't draw a ball with a 19oz cue, that's silly.
While I could agree partially with regards to weight having an effect on draw shots with all factors considered, I think we should also think what draw shot you are trying to accomplish. Is it finesse, power, slow, fast, short, long. From my experience, the weight helps on long power draw shots. Anyway, I became much more reliant on draw shots after I transitioned to an 11.8- 12mm tips.
 
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