"Pool Wars" by Jay Helfert

12squared

AzB Gold Member
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I bought my copy fairly early (#11? out of the first 500) and enjoyed the read. My wife and I visited Ann Arbor this past weekend for her homecoming and to root on a Michigan win; I decided to bring "Pool Wars" with me to read on the plane. I enjoyed it more the second time around.

For those that already own this book and have not already done so, I would suggest you pick it up again, I had a good time and it helped pass the time on the plane quickly. For those that do not own this book (or his 2nd one) I suggest you pick it up. Jay has lived and breathed pool for most of his life and shared some very interesting experiences.

Dave
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Got 'em both...read 'em both.
Must reads for any serious player....


...and even those that aint
 

12squared

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Got 'em both...read 'em both.
Must reads for any serious player....


...and even those that aint

Hi Mr. T. Yes, I have both books, too. Maybe reread "More Pool Wars" for the next trip :)

Dave
 

L.S. Dennis

Well-known member
Yes I agree both great books and differently in their own ways. The second seemed more ‘worldly’ if that’s the right word, both equally enjoyable.
 

L I F D 1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How is Jay Helfert by the way?
Last I knew, he was packing a personal sized camper and going out for a drive. (you know what that means)
:alien:
Anyone catch up with him or any word what's going on or how he's doing.
 

Dave714

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I liked the first book, the second book had some page fillers at the end of the book imo.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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Silver Member
I liked and highly recommend both books. While the information is known, having it in one place in his "little black book" section of the second book is nice. I do feel that Jay could write another book or two especially when I read that UJ Puckett was a mentor. (insert joke about the long and short of things here!) I never knew UJ but anybody that fished all morning, played pool in the evening, and padded things out with good looking ladies I have to admire!

The first forty pages or so of the first book seemed so close to my story that it could have been written by me. After that we diverged though. Good reads and some pool gold in the stories. As a plus, hard to read both books and not know Jay a little better between pool stories and stories that didn't directly involve action on a table. Nothing to lower my opinion of him in the least and a few things to raise it. Sometimes things are more fun than others! Jay seems to have put more trust in a little .25 than I would have but any gun is a whole lot better than no gun sometimes!

Hu
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
I liked and highly recommend both books. While the information is known, having it in one place in his "little black book" section of the second book is nice. I do feel that Jay could write another book or two especially when I read that UJ Puckett was a mentor. (insert joke about the long and short of things here!) I never knew UJ but anybody that fished all morning, played pool in the evening, and padded things out with good looking ladies I have to admire!

The first forty pages or so of the first book seemed so close to my story that it could have been written by me. After that we diverged though. Good reads and some pool gold in the stories. As a plus, hard to read both books and not know Jay a little better between pool stories and stories that didn't directly involve action on a table. Nothing to lower my opinion of him in the least and a few things to raise it. Sometimes things are more fun than others! Jay seems to have put more trust in a little .25 than I would have but any gun is a whole lot better than no gun sometimes!

Hu
So, Hu, would you consider a .25 equivalent to playing off the wall with a push on tip? :)
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
So, Hu, would you consider a .25 equivalent to playing off the wall with a push on tip? :)


Two .25 stories:

A man working for me was a young retired military man, put in his twenty and retired at about forty. He and his wife were fighting so he said he was going to viet nam where he could get some peace and quiet. His wife found out that he was down at the recruitment office. "You SOB, you aren't going to viet nam and get killed on me!" Shot him seven times with a .25 inside the office! Never heard of anyone hitting somebody seven times with one magazine full of .25's. That should have been worth some kind of shooting award. He came by about three weeks later. Color good, no slings or bandages in sight, couldn't tell he had been shot.

A barbecue in a friend's yard. Generous quantities of beer involved and two guys get to arguing. Gets heated enough one runs to his vehicle to get a gun. Naturally the other guy goes to his car for a gun. Pulls out a little .25, one shot at 75 feet or more, hits the other guy in the head. Kills him, not just a little bit, graveyard dead! You know your luck is bad if somebody pulls off a shot like that against you! Odds of getting killed had to be a little longer than getting killed because you got hit with blue ice!

Not as bad now when you can get various ammo for it but in the days of only hardball readily available for a .25 I'm afraid I did regard them pretty lightly. I can think of another killing with a .25 but the range was about three inches or less. All this being said, for the most part those that speak lightly of .22's and .25's aren't doing it while one is pointed at them!

Old school, especially when headed into a rough situation I toted a Hu tuned Colt Commander, in .45 of course!

Hu
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Two .25 stories:

A man working for me was a young retired military man, put in his twenty and retired at about forty. He and his wife were fighting so he said he was going to viet nam where he could get some peace and quiet. His wife found out that he was down at the recruitment office. "You SOB, you aren't going to viet nam and get killed on me!" Shot him seven times with a .25 inside the office! Never heard of anyone hitting somebody seven times with one magazine full of .25's. That should have been worth some kind of shooting award. He came by about three weeks later. Color good, no slings or bandages in sight, couldn't tell he had been shot.

A barbecue in a friend's yard. Generous quantities of beer involved and two guys get to arguing. Gets heated enough one runs to his vehicle to get a gun. Naturally the other guy goes to his car for a gun. Pulls out a little .25, one shot at 75 feet or more, hits the other guy in the head. Kills him, not just a little bit, graveyard dead! You know your luck is bad if somebody pulls off a shot like that against you! Odds of getting killed had to be a little longer than getting killed because you got hit with blue ice!

Not as bad now when you can get various ammo for it but in the days of only hardball readily available for a .25 I'm afraid I did regard them pretty lightly. I can think of another killing with a .25 but the range was about three inches or less. All this being said, for the most part those that speak lightly of .22's and .25's aren't doing it while one is pointed at them!

Old school, especially when headed into a rough situation I toted a Hu tuned Colt Commander, in .45 of course!

Hu


Hu, I was far more focused on finding pool games back then rather than learning anything more about guns. I did know how to shoot a .22 rifle and an M-14. Self taught on the first and the Army taught me on the second one. I killed crows at 100 yards plus with the .22 (long rifle of course) and the M-14 would bring down any man at 300-400 yards with ease. I only bought my first Browning .25 in Dayton when I was 21. I bought it because if was tiny and would fit in the back pocket of my jeans. I didn't have any illusions about how powerful it was (about equal to a .22 short) but I knew I had a fighting chance if someone jumped me. Without it I was unarmed and overmatched. With it, I could defend myself in a pinch and maybe get away. In all the years I carried it I only needed to take it out once, when two guys tried to rob me outside my first poolroom. Just seeing that little gun in my hand was enough to discourage them, and one guy had a large buck knife (yes, it was cocked and loaded and my finger was on the trigger. One more step and BANG!). One other time my GF had it in her purse and took it out when some guy came toward me with a pool cue. She would have shot him for sure, she was a little bad ass. I was playing Monk 9-Ball for 20 a game and after hours of back and forth I told him I was quitting. We had ridden all the way to Vegas from Bakersfield on my Honda 880 Chopper, walked in the poolroom and got in the game right away (I felt really tired and wanted to take a break). I wasn't sure how I stood, but might have been a couple of games ahead. He didn't say anything but one of his buddies started getting nasty with me. Lucky for him Monk told him to back down and leave me alone.

I was there when Bill Stepp (a serious outlaw) took three shots to the chest at point blank range from a .25 at the Cue & Bridge in Dayton, Ohio in 1964. He just stood there and didn't say a word while the old man who shot him walked out the door (Bill had given the man's son a severe beating a day or two before). Bill told a couple of his friends to take him to the hospital. He seemed okay when he walked out the door to the car. One of his friends was my close buddy Terry Johnson who went with Bill to the hospital. He told me later that Bill was okay at first but started having trouble breathing on the way there. He was gasping for breath when they arrived at the ER. Terry told me that when they took his shirt off you could see the purple lines in his chest where the bullets went. Bill almost died on the operating table, but he still told those two guys not to touch a hair on the old man's head. So for anyone who thinks you can't kill someone with a .25 they are dead wrong.

My own story was about a cop in Bakersfield who had it out for me. A couple of guys had been dealing drugs (H) out of my restroom without me knowing about it. This cop came in and rousted me, thinking that I was somehow involved. He frisked me and found the little Browning in my back pocket. He held it up in my face (I was cuffed) and asked me what I thought I could do with my little toy gun. I told him if it was held up against his head he wouldn't be saying that. That earned me a trip to the station where this little tough guy cop (Joe Sverbilis) debated with his partner about giving me a beating in the basement of the police station (and they could have gotten away with it). Fortunately his partner didn't want to beat on me like Joe did. I was unarmed and cuffed, totally defenseless. I still had to bail myself out ($750) and it took a month to get my gun back. It was legal for me to have that gun there. I had gotten a permit from the police chief himself!
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hu, I was far more focused on finding pool games back then rather than learning anything more about guns. I did know how to shoot a .22 rifle and an M-14. Self taught on the first and the Army taught me on the second one. I killed crows at 100 yards plus with the .22 (long rifle of course) and the M-14 would bring down any man at 300-400 yards with ease. I only bought my first Browning .25 in Dayton when I was 21. I bought it because if was tiny and would fit in the back pocket of my jeans. I didn't have any illusions about how powerful it was (about equal to a .22 short) but I knew I had a fighting chance if someone jumped me. Without it I was unarmed and overmatched. With it, I could defend myself in a pinch and maybe get away. In all the years I carried it I only needed to take it out once, when two guys tried to rob me outside my first poolroom. Just seeing that little gun in my hand was enough to discourage them, and one guy had a large buck knife (yes, it was cocked and loaded and my finger was on the trigger. One more step and BANG!). One other time my GF had it in her purse and took it out when some guy came toward me with a pool cue. She would have shot him for sure, she was a little bad ass. I was playing Monk 9-Ball for 20 a game and after hours of back and forth I told him I was quitting. We had ridden all the way to Vegas from Bakersfield on my Honda 880 Chopper, walked in the poolroom and got in the game right away (I felt really tired and wanted to take a break). I wasn't sure how I stood, but might have been a couple of games ahead. He didn't say anything but one of his buddies started getting nasty with me. Lucky for him Monk told him to back down and leave me alone.

I was there when Bill Stepp (a serious outlaw) took three shots to the chest at point blank range from a .25 at the Cue & Bridge in Dayton, Ohio in 1964. He just stood there and didn't say a word while the old man who shot him walked out the door (Bill had given the man's son a severe beating a day or two before). Bill told a couple of his friends to take him to the hospital. He seemed okay when he walked out the door to the car. One of his friends was my close buddy Terry Johnson who went with Bill to the hospital. He told me later that Bill was okay at first but started having trouble breathing on the way there. He was gasping for breath when they arrived at the ER. Terry told me that when they took his shirt off you could see the purple lines in his chest where the bullets went. Bill almost died on the operating table, but he still told those two guys not to touch a hair on the old man's head. So for anyone who thinks you can't kill someone with a .25 they are dead wrong.

My own story was about a cop in Bakersfield who had it out for me. A couple of guys had been dealing drugs (H) out of my restroom without me knowing about it. This cop came in and rousted me, thinking that I was somehow involved. He frisked me and found the little Browning in my back pocket. He held it up in my face (I was cuffed) and asked me what I thought I could do with my little toy gun. I told him if it was held up against his head he wouldn't be saying that. That earned me a trip to the station where this little tough guy cop (Joe Sverbilis) debated with his partner about giving me a beating in the basement of the police station (and they could have gotten away with it). Fortunately his partner didn't want to beat on me like Joe did. I was unarmed and cuffed, totally defenseless. I still had to bail myself out ($750) and it took a month to get my gun back. It was legal for me to have that gun there. I had gotten a permit from the police chief himself!


The little guns kill people but like your story of the guy shot three times in the chest, they may not do it fast. I don't really care if I kill someone or not, I am more interested in stopping them from killing me! However, like you carrying the .25, I mostly carried a .380 or two. I have carried .45's, 357's, larger .380's, and the tiny .380's I carried last. The trajectory is easy to see, I went to guns easier and easier to carry. A gun sitting at home or in a vehicle isn't worth a damn when you need it somewhere else. I had several friends that toted the little .25's. They are about a thousand times better than nothing, all teasing aside. Now there are tiny .380's, a 9mm cartridge that was heavily used by police and military in europe until the 9mm parabellum that carries more power became the standardized NATO sidearm. Not likely to hit the broadside of a barn at fifty feet but at the range you are likely to need them they will do the job. Much better ammo readily available today makes all of the mouse guns, .25 to .380, much more effective.

I used to know an x-ray tech that worked in an inner city trauma center. They would x-ray guys that had been shot. Besides the current wound it was common to find all kinds of other bullets in them, tiny to pretty large. What they had in common were that they were usually hardball. Solid nosed bullets that don't expand. I'll carry my tiny guns with good ammo and be happy.

My nephew, my brother, and I were in my nephew's yard when he made the comment that 1911's weren't accurate. My brother looked my way, "Get the Commander." Set up a sixteen ounce plastic coke bottle at about twenty to twenty-five yards. First two shots hit the coke bottle, the second knocked it out of sight. My brother helpfully pointed out the red top was still showing where it had gotten blown off. My nephew hit it with his next shot. Chances of doing that with a mouse gun are almost zero but the need of doing it with a mouse gun are almost zero too. Almost all self defense shootings are under fifteen feet. If you are much further away there are usually better options than getting in a shooting match with somebody!

Hu
 
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